Iran nuclear: 'Shift in Tehran tone' hailed at UN
The US-Iran meeting in New York represented the highest-level direct contact between the countries in six years
US and European allies have welcomed what they called a "significant shift" in Iran's attitude to its nuclear programme, after high-level UN talks.
US Secretary of State John Kerry said after meeting Iranian Foreign Minister Mohammad Javad Zarif he was struck by the "very different tone".
But Mr Kerry said Iran still had questions to answer.
Substantive talks with Iran on its nuclear programme are due to take place in Geneva from 15 October.
They will involve the five permanent members of the UN Security Council - the US, Russia, Britain, France and China - along with Germany, known as the P5+1.
The US-Iran meeting in New York represented the highest-level direct contact between the countries in six years. Diplomats from the P5+1 were also present.
Continue reading the main story
Analysis
Jeremy Bowen
BBC Middle East editor, New York
Iran has a new president, Hassan Rouhani, and rather than provoke walkouts like his predecessor, he has come to the UN to try to change sceptical minds.
He said he wanted relations with the West based on moderation, peace and wisdom. He said his talks here had convinced him the atmosphere had changed.
The meeting between Iran and the P5+1 started the hard work that will be necessary to get a deal. Both sides said it went well.
If Hassan Rouhani can deliver what he has been saying in New York - and if the world's big powers can reciprocate - than there's a real chance to make progress on the slow-burning but highly dangerous standoff about Iran's nuclear plans.
One of Iran's missions at the UN this week has been to get long-term recognition for its belief that it is a regional power, with its own legitimate security interests.
President Rouhani has managed to create a change for the better in the atmospherics and, considering the outlook in the Middle East is so dismal and dangerous, that has to be a good start.
Mr Kerry said he was pleased that Mr Zarif "put possibilities on the table", but said a lot of work remained to be done and that Iran would have to answer questions about its nuclear programme.
"One meeting and a change in tone, which was welcome, doesn't answer those questions yet," he said.
'Nothing but peaceful'
Mr Zarif called the talks "constructive" and said the diplomats had made progress on resolving international issues in a manner that respected the rights of the Iranian people.
"I am satisfied with this first step," he said. "Now we have to see whether we can match our positive words with serious deeds so we can move forward."
Mr Zarif insisted Iran's nuclear programme was "nothing but peaceful" and pledged to prove it to the international community.
The Iranian foreign minister called sanctions against Iran "counterproductive" and added he hoped all bilateral, unilateral and multilateral sanctions would be lifted in the near future.
Likewise, British Foreign Secretary William Hague said afterwards the tone and spirit of the meeting were "extremely good".
European Union foreign policy chief Catherine Ashton said there was an agreement to "go forward with an ambitious timeframe".
New Iranian President Hassan Rouhani has said he wants to reach a deal on the nuclear dispute in three to six months.
But the Americans have said there will be no major concessions on sanctions until the Iranians take concrete steps to reassure the world they are not seeking nuclear weapons.
Iran reaches out
Earlier, President Rouhani told the UN General Assembly that no country should possess nuclear arms.
US Secretary of State John Kerry said there had been a "change in tone" from Iran
Iran has been negotiating over the nuclear issue since 2006 with the P5+1.
Since Mr Rouhani's election in June, Iranian officials have reached out to the West, saying they want to address concerns over Iran's nuclear programme.
On Tuesday, Mr Rouhani told the General Assembly that he was prepared to engage in "time-bound and results-oriented" talks.
On Thursday, he called for stricter controls on nuclear weapons as part of a global effort to eventually rid the world of them.
"No nation should possess nuclear weapons, since there are no right hands for these wrong weapons," he said, speaking on behalf of the Non-Aligned Movement at the General Assembly.
'Moderate course'
The P5+1 have asked Iran to halt production and stockpiling of uranium enriched to 20% - a step away from achieving a nuclear weapons capability.
Hassan Rouhani: "The indefinite possession of nuclear weapons cannot be tolerated"
They also demanded Iran shut down the Fordo underground enrichment facility.
In return, they offered to ease the sanctions that have severely affected Iran's economy.
US President Barack Obama has welcomed the new Iranian president's more "moderate course".
He told the UN on Tuesday that the US wanted to resolve the nuclear issue peacefully, but was determined to prevent Iran from developing a nuclear weapon.
Mr Rouhani has said he is fully empowered by Iran's Supreme Leader Ayatollah Khamenei to negotiate on the issue.
The BBC's Bridget Kendall, who is at the UN, says President Rouhani has signalled a sharp departure from the foreign policy and the tone of his predecessor, Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, whose bombastic pronouncements at the UN in the past resulted in walk-outs.
Over salmon kebabs in his hotel on Wednesday evening, he bluntly told a gathering of former United States diplomats and Iran scholars that he would never give up his country’s right to enrich uranium, but would swiftly resolve its nuclear standoff with the West. The next day he took aim at Israel’s nuclear arsenal in a public speech in the morning, and at night wooed his country’s influential, often skeptical diaspora with a banquet for 800.
ReplyDeleteBut amid the fervent diplomatic theater, intended to end Iran’s isolation, it was at times difficult to tell whether Mr. Rouhani was a genuinely transformative Iranian leader, as his cabinet insisted, or a more polished avatar of the past, as his critics claimed.
In television interviews and public addresses throughout the week, he repeatedly sought to cast himself as a moderate ready to do business with the West. But it was also clear that whatever he said here was closely and instantly dissected at home, raising uncertainty over whether he could truly deliver a compromise with the West, if that is what he sought.
And so he condemned the Nazis in a television interview, but quickly hedged by saying he was not a historian. And even as he called for “time bound” talks to resolve the nuclear standoff, he skipped a lunch at which he might have had the chance to meet President Obama and shake his hand. Even charmed diplomats pointed out he offered no concrete proposals, while also noting he had received nothing concrete from Western officials to take back to his constituents.
Those who watched him closest this week describe Mr. Rouhani as serious, controlled and single-mindedly focused on message. He seemed intent to convey that he was prepared to take concrete steps to normalize relations with the West, that he was reasonable and that he enjoyed the backing of the street and his country’s religious establishment. He also seemed to be in somewhat of a rush, even while saying events might have been moving too fast.
“He did not come to New York to negotiate with speeches or throw in the towel and surrender. He came to New York to start negotiations,” said Vali Nasr, dean of the School of Advanced International Studies at Johns Hopkins University. “He is very clever, very pragmatic, but he’s also now showing himself to be bold, a risk-taker. He is taking the biggest risk any Iranian has in reaching out to the West.”
NY Times
Kerry is tone deaf, the dumbshit.
ReplyDeleteUncle 'hani is nice.
DeleteHe is peace man.
child
Though force can protect in emergency, only justice, fairness, consideration and cooperation can finally lead men to the dawn of eternal peace.
DeleteWell hell, Ike, start by puttin' them qualities in the Koran, woodja?
DeleteThat'd be startin' othewise this shit gonna go 'n on.
The war... was an unnecessary condition of affairs, and might have been avoided if forebearance and wisdom had been practiced on both sides.
DeleteYou don't make peace with friends. You make it with very unsavory enemies.
DeleteTo prejudge other men's notions before we have looked into them is not to show their darkness but to put out our own eyes.
DeleteIran still supports, supplies, helps, trains and provides sanctuary for the world's worst terrorists.
DeleteIt has funded with BILLIONS of dollars an illicit nuclear program with thousands of centrifuges, a warhead program and a launch program. This has gone on for YEARS. A nation who cant provide decent housing standards and that is effected by minor earthquakes that level tens of thousands of homes a year and kills thousands can afford to endure international sanctions to pursue it's nuclear aims?
Iran provides hezbollah with literally 80 thousand rockets aims at civilians in Israel, has supported Hamas and many other terror groups across the globe and spent BILLIONS on such support all to hurt the west and to increase Iran's hegemony. Iran is now in control of Iraq, Syria, Lebanon...
To prejudge?
Nothing about prejudging...
Iran?
A nation at war with the west.
Like it or not...
And a smile and a coke makes you happy
What would talks with Iran mean for Obama?
ReplyDeleteBy Tom Curry, National Affairs Writer, NBC News
The stakes are high for President Obama heading into next week's U.N. General Assembly meeting in New York, as speculation mounts over a possible renewal of direct talks between the United States and Iran.
The meeting offers the White House a chance to make history by easing decades-long diplomatic tensions.
But it's a risky political maneuver for Obama. There's the matter of Iranian President Hassan Rouhani's recent deflection of a question about the Holocaust in an interview with NBC News, coupled with that nation's apparent effort to build a nuclear weapons arsenal.
Both are complicated issues on their own, and together risk undercutting his support among the American Jewish community, a core Democratic constituency. The president has a lot to gain, but also a lot to lose.
------------
Sure, American Jews are going to defect en masse to the Republican Party and The Knights of Columbus.
What difference a week makes...
DeleteNo deflection of questions about theHolocaust now.
"The Nazis carried out a massacre that cannot be denied, especially against the Jewish people,"Iranian President Hassan Rouhani said in an informal conversation with a small group of U.S. reporters, including NBC News.
...
"The massacre by the Nazis was condemnable. We never want to sit by side with the Nazis," he said. "They committed a crime against Jews — which is a crime against Christians, against Muslims, against all of humanity."
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
DeleteThe atomic bomb certainly is the most powerful of all weapons, but it is conclusively powerful and effective only in the hands of the nation which controls the sky.
ReplyDeleteOh come on LB, 10 of them suckers planted around our big cities, with threats of more to come, would ruin USA for decades.
DeleteYou didn't know what the fuck in Vietnam, and you don't know what the fuck now.
Give my regards to Lady Bird.
How did they get them to our cities?
DeleteOur 12 carrier battle groups rule the seas
Our Air Force, allied with that of the United Arab Emirates rule the skies
There Iranians rule a desolate desert thousands off miles from US.
They have no air force, they have no maritime forces, only coastal patrol boats.
Your threat assessment is worse than faulty, it is the product of a paranoid child
You are afraid of a shadow, Anonymous.
Yawn, the checker player who sits behind his horse barn can't fathom how a terrorist could do something really bad to our nation.
DeleteWill wonders ever cease.
No sense in listing 1/2 ways as he will find everyone not "feasible"...
He's not a rational reasonable person who has any ability to actual think....
How did Buchanan put it? A peace panic breaking out in DC? Kerry impressed:
ReplyDeleteQuelle tuile!
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
ReplyDeleteWhen our citizens are abused or attacked anywhere in the world on the direct orders of a hostile regime, we will respond so long as I'm in this Oval Office. Self-defense is not only our right; it is our duty. ... Despite our repeated warnings, Qadhafi continued his reckless policy of intimidation, his relentless pursuit of terror. He counted on America to be passive. He counted wrong.
DeleteThe war that started under the Reagan Administration in 1986, ended in a victory engineered by Team Obama in 2011.
DeleteTwenty-five years of low level conflict culminated in a win.
We can see the same trend-lines in the US relationship with Iran.
Iran being a lot larger, the time line is longer.
What the US started in 1953 is finally coming to a head.
To fight and conquer in all our battles is not supreme excellence; supreme excellence consists in breaking the enemy's resistance without fighting.
Sun Tzu
The US strives for supreme excellence, if only because we are an exceptionally excellent people, a polyglot extraordinaire.
Ditto.
ReplyDeleteDitto ditto.
DeleteNews Resources - North America, Europe, and Asia:
ReplyDeleteIran: CNN "Fabricated" Rouhani Translation on Holocaust - Jessica Chasmar
A CNN interview with Iranian President Hassan Rouhani quickly made international headlines after the new president reportedly recognized the Holocaust. On CNN.com's home page Wednesday, the main headline for Christiane Amanpour's interview with Rouhani read, "Iran's New President: Yes, the Holocaust Happened." However, the semi-official Iranian FARS News Agency said Wednesday the report is "fabricated." CNN "added to or changed parts of his remarks when Christiane Amanpour asked him about the Holocaust," FARS said. FARS said the word "Holocaust" and the statement "Whatever criminality they committed against the Jews, we condemn" are the "worst parts of the fabrications." (Washington Times)
See also Iranian President Softens Condemnation of Holocaust - Rick Gladstone
When President Hassan Rouhani of Iran was asked again on Thursday to state his stand on the Holocaust, he said: "We condemn the crimes by the Nazis during World War II," but added that many people had been killed, including "a group of Jewish people." (New York Times)
See also below Commentary: Holocaust Denial in Translation - Editorial (Wall Street Journal)
from Daily Alert
http://www.dailyalert.org/
Delete" Mr. Chamberlain likes to take weekends in the country; I shall take countries in the weekend!"
ReplyDelete“Chamberlain seemed such a nice old gentleman that I thought I would give him my autograph.”
“All propaganda has to be popular and has to accommodate itself to the comprehension of the least intelligent of those whom it seeks to reach.”
___A. Hitler
I did not have 5,113 nuclear warheads.
DeleteI did not have a single carrier battle group, let alone a baker's dozen.
If I had, then A. Hitler would have maintained the agreement we had signed in Munich.
Our challenge was not in the signing the agreement, it was not in verifying Germany's compliance.
The challenge was that we English were unable to effectively project military power onto the continent.
The United States is not in that position, not today and certainly not tomorrow, especially in regards to Iran..
Those who would compare NAZI Germany and England of 1938 to the US and Iran of 2013, are attempting the impossible. There is no valid comparison, the Iranians have no industrial base, they have no Panzers, no Luftwaffe, No Graff Spree or Bismark on the seas.
These children who make such comparisons are not versed in the world of reality
.
The Americans have heeded the consul of Winston Churchill, they have the most robust military in the world.
There is no valid comparison that can be made to the military readiness of England in 1938 and that of the United States in 2013.
That is the reality of history.
To put it bluntly, comparing Iran of 2013 to Germany of 1938 is to belittle Germany and elevate Iran.
DeleteIt denigrates the horror of German aggression.
It denies the truth of the Holocaust.
It is not that such comparisons are just childish, they are infantile.
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
DeleteKerry said it so it must be true!
ReplyDeleteWhy in HELL does 'Rat think this Patriot is Crazy?
ReplyDeleteBecause, dougo, the Republicans did not have thirty votes.
DeleteThey did not have one vote.
The Republicans voted 100% to give Harry Reid the authority to fund ObamaCare.
The rest was theater.
Mr Cruz provided drama for the Tea Party patriots, comic relief for Republican Senators.
As for Johnnie Mac.
;-)
Why did Cruz vote for it?
DeleteYou would have to ask Mr Cruz.
DeletePerhaps his wife told him it was for the best?
I wonder if Mac ever ripped a guy's Face Off?
Delete...looks Simian, for sure.
No doubt John claims to be from the Family Hominidae: great apes, including humans
Delete...when in fact it is The Budweiser Frog family that bought him fame and fortune.
Hey!
ReplyDeleteI just learned that LBJ and Lady Bird have the same initials!
This Site is AWESOME!!!
Lyndon B. JohnsonFri Sep 27, 09:59:00 AM EDT
ReplyDeleteHow did they get them to our cities?
Our 12 carrier battle groups rule the seas
Our Air Force, allied with that of the United Arab Emirates rule the skies
There Iranians rule a desolate desert thousands off miles from US.
They have no air force, they have no maritime forces, only coastal patrol boats.
Your threat assessment is worse than faulty, it is the product of a paranoid child
You are afraid of a shadow, Anonymous.
---
How could 19 Towelheads that don't know how to land an airplane take down the Twin Towers?
Because the FBI and CIA let them.
DeleteThose towelheads were well known to our security forces.
But because they were not carrying any nuclear weapons, the threat they posed was not considered existential.
Because they did not have a single handgun, shotgun or assault rifle in their possession, much less a dozen nuclear warheads.
Would you propose that the Federal government regulate box cutters?
That we have required background checks of all who attempt purchase one?
There were deficiencies in our internal defenses.
The NSA has remedied most of those
The FBI has tightened up.
We have redirected the terrorist, so that they now focus on their "Near Enemy"
It was masterful work by the CIA, they really slammed home that dunk!
You are attempting the comparison of apples to oranges, doug
DeleteDoug,
DeleteAnon sees shadows where none exist. The only comparison, if even it was that, is that liars are liars.
Give me a pickup truck and a nuke in Alaska, I can deliver to LA, three weeks.
DeleteLyndon B. JohnsonFri Sep 27, 11:27:00 AM EDT
DeleteYou are attempting the comparison of apples to oranges, doug
---
Apples and Oranges are outta my league, LB.
....suggest you consolt Farmer Bobbo.
But there is Iranian that can give you that nuke, anonymous.
DeleteIt does not exist in Iran.
Maybe the US should bomb Russia, they COULD get a nuke into Alaska.
They control the opposite shore and they do have nuclear weapons.
If there is a threat of a nuke being infiltrated south from Alaska, it emanates from Russia.
"My fellow Americans, I'm pleased to tell you today that I've signed legislation that will outlaw Russia forever. We begin bombing in five minutes." - RW Reagan
"ult"
DeleteThe Rat cant fathom anything he cant see 6 inches from his face.
DeleteDont try to get him to think outside the box, learn asymmetrical warfare.
He will just come up with faulty bullshit to confuse and conflate....
Weird: I put Italics tags on the quote above, and The Blogger Gods would not publish it.
ReplyDeleteWTF?
When we rule everything, how could megatons of Pot Land on the shores of San Simeon, CA, LBJ?
DeleteHow could Coyotes smuggle illegals across our well-protected Southern Border?
DeleteBecause the Federal government allows it.
DeleteFocused as they are upon projecting power in the Middle East instead of securing the borders of the United States and the sanctity of our public lands. Not only in an Simeon, CA but across the western staes. The Federals contol 80% of thoe lands, but do not secure them from illegal activities.
You ask why?
Mr Cruz is from Texas, a border state, ask him when you query him about his vote to authorize Harry Reid to fund ObamaCare.
Report back if you would when he replies..
Plain as the nose on your face, doug.
I'm growing a New One on my forehead.
DeleteBig John eliminated the one I was used to.
Temper?
DeleteWhat Temper?
(Webmaster: Insert Simian Mp 3 here.)
DeleteSimian SCREAM
DeleteIt is interesting that our Israeli travelers have gone to the AAIPAC handbook...
ReplyDeleteWhen all else fails, compare 'em to Hitler!
Even Mr Assad has made the grade, he was the "Next Hitler", just a couple of weeks ago.
Most of US disagreed, and rightfully so
Interesting you still distort, misdirect and lie...
DeleteThat's about par for the course.
Brad Williams shot an 82:
DeleteShow me anyone else under 4 Feet that can do that.
Even as a child, I knew Miniature Golf was a game for midgets.
Delete...then in college, I learned I was EVIL for using the "M Word"
"Brad Williams (born 1984 in Orange, California) is a comedian and actor. He regularly appeared on the show Mind of Mencia.
DeleteWilliams was born with Achondroplasia, a type of dwarfism. His condition plays a large part in the bits in both his stand-up comedy and television roles. He was a student at Sunny Hills High School in Fullerton, California and after graduation, he attended the University of Southern California but dropped out to pursue his acting and comedy career.
Williams got his start by attending a Carlos Mencia live comedy show. While he was in the crowd Mencia made jokes about dwarfs. The people sitting close to Williams were scared to laugh. Mencia noticed this, then noticed Williams and he asked Brad to join him on stage. Brad cracked a few jokes and impressed Mencia. Mencia then asked Williams to try stand-up and be his opening act on the road. Brad has been Mencia's opening act ever since, opening up shows on both the Mind of Mencia tour and the popular Punisher Tour. [1]
Brad's memorable roles on the Mind of Mencia include playing a dwarf whore ("whorf"), the leader of an all dwarf basketball team, joining Mencia at a Renaissance faire, and giving a speech about his hatred of podiums. Brad is frequently confused with Wee Man from Jackass because of their similar appearance.[2] For St. Patrick's Day 2008, Brad, dressed as a leprechaun, made an appearance on The Tonight Show with Jay Leno. For Halloween 2008, Brad dressed up as Chucky for a skit on Jimmy Kimmel Live!
On July 31, 2010, Brad appeared in an episode of 'Pit Boss' on Animal Planet, called "Surprise Surprise". In April 2011 Brad released his first full length comedy album called "Coming Up Short." It is available on iTunes, Amazon.com, and his website."
Brad's dad, knowing he would face some "challenges" in the World of Giants,
Deleterole played w/him to respond w/cheeky responses.
The Rest is History,
...not to mention the future, for this 40 year old savant.
Obviously, the Hitler quotes hit too close to home for some. Other than to the fevered mind of the ever vigilant Jew catcher, no comparison was made. I think what really hurt was Hitler's observation, “All propaganda has to be popular and has to accommodate itself to the comprehension of the least intelligent of those whom it seeks to reach.”
ReplyDeleteThat you, yourself, did not make the comparison, allen, does not mean the comparison has not been made by your fellow travelers.There was no dispute with what you quoted from Mr Hitler.
DeleteThere may have even been some truth to it.
After all we have been told that "Hitler was right", when quot demanded that Deuce change the name of the blog to reflect that staunch feeling quot had on the matter.
Comparing the "Enemies" of Israel to Hitler and NAZI is a tactic that the other self-professed members of AIPAC often make here at .The Libertarian. The Christians of Syria have been described as NAZI unworthy of humanitarian aid, by some of the AIPAC members that contribute editorially. Deuce has been referred to as a NAZI, as has rufus.
That is why the quotes hit "close to home" anyone that does not toe the Zionist line in support of the secular state of Israel, is painted with a NAZI swastika by our AIPAC contributor. There is a predisposition to expect libel of other contributors or a spreading of egregious propaganda directed at other foreign states, when A. Hitler is introduced to the thread.
By using "Stop and Search" techniques developed by NYCity an attempt was being made to stop the spread of gratuitous graffiti before it reduced value, here.
To have someone compare our host here at ".The Libertarian" to A. Hitler or to a NAZI is tantamount to Holocaust Denial
DeleteI know, without doubt that Deuce has not imprisoned and murdered 10,000 assorted Jews, Gypsies and mental incompetent.
I know it with all heart. I dare to say he has not imprisoned and murdered even one person, ever. He does have a variety of points of view on numerous topics that he openly expresses. He will edit from his blog comments he finds offensive. It takes a lot of doing to offend Deuce.
Now, he is an character I have direct, if impersonal and limited knowledge of. He is not evil, he does not advocate for genocide, he does not advocate for mas murder, he does not call any particular ethnic, racial or religious group inherently inferior in the rights as human beings.
So, for the comparison to be valid ...
Either did Hitler.
Which is not true at all.
The comparison elevates A.Hitler to a status he does not deserve.
To compare Mr Rouhani to A. Hitler, makes Hitler look better than he ever should.
To compare Assad to Hitler, a statement made by JFKerry.
Birds of a feather, flocking together, JFKerry and our Israeli passport holding AIPAC member.
I have considered both of the sources and have concluded that there is a certain equivalency of dysfunction, taking neither of them very seriously. JFKerry being the Secretary of State, does not rant but is often just as inaccurate of his assessments and proclamations as our primary AIPAC contributor of editorial content.
Seemed eminently comprehensible when I wrote it.
DeleteMaybe I should look elsewhere for a proof reader ...
I don't think Farmer Fudd is going to sign up at technical school.
Rat: After all we have been told that "Hitler was right", when quot demanded that Deuce change the name of the blog to reflect that staunch feeling quot had on the matter.
DeleteA complete misquoting and misdirecting by our Liar in chief, Desert Rat.
Why not produce the ACTUAL quote you reference?
Oh that's right, it would prove what a liar you are...
Rat: Birds of a feather, flocking together, JFKerry and our Israeli passport holding AIPAC member.
DeletePlease provide the quote that says I have an Israeli passport.
Otherwise you are simply inventing...
Now we have quoted you saying you have "sources" inside the AZ FBI...
Now either you are a criminal for leaking secrets from the AZ FBI or you are just an old blowhard...
Which is it?
Criminal or blowhard?
Both.
DeleteCHICAGO (September 26, 2013) – Construction at POET-DSM Advanced Biofuels’ Project LIBERTY is on schedule for an early 2014 startup, with a crew of approximately 300 workers on site daily, a POET-DSM executive said today in Chicago.
ReplyDeletePOET-DSM Advanced Biofuel’s Project LIBERTY will be one of the first plants of its kind in the nation. It will use cob bales – made up of corn cobs, leaves, husks and some stalk – to produce 20 million gallons of cellulosic bio-ethanol annually, later ramping up to 25 million gallons. Steve Hartig, General Manager – Licensing for POET-DSM is outlining progress today at the Platts Biofuels and Chemicals conference.
Hartig said the progress to date includes
•Biomass receiving and grinding building is complete and biomass processing equipment is nearly installed.
•Saccharification, fermentation tanks are complete.
•Equipment installation and pipe work is ongoing.
•Cooling tower construction is underway.
•Underground utilities are nearing completion.
“We had a great summer for construction and have been able to stay on track to start producing cellulosic bio-ethanol early next year,” Hartig said. “It’s impressive to see this technology coming to life in Emmetsburg.”
Hartig and the POET-DSM licensing team are now in preliminary talks with other ethanol producers, preparing to license POET-DSM technology for future plants.
- See more at: http://poetdsm.com/pr/liberty-construction-update-sept-2013#sthash.v5r8F3KX.dpuf
2,999 to go
A man who used to market fuels under the Phillips 66 name has decided to forgo the Big Oil brand so he can offer consumers the choice of E15 ethanol.
Delete“They changed the rules mid-stream for what they would allow me to do once E15 came out,” said Scott Zaremba, a Kansas retailer who sold fuel under the Phillips 66 brand for 28 years. But during a recent Fuels America news conference, he said he abandoned that well-known brand because of the rules that made it impossible for him to offer the greener choice of fuel for any 2001 or newer vehicle. “And so I re-branded my locations to Zarco USA and created a brand of American Fuels.”
zarco66-logoScott, who is a second-generation fuel marketer, admits it’s been a tough road as Big Oil continues to put up roadblocks to consumer choice. But he remembers the Arab Oil Embargo of the early 1970s, 1991′s Gulf War, and the economic collapse of 2008 – all with the common theme of energy needs, high prices, and the lack of opportunity to get oil. He says it was necessary to offer something else, becoming the first retailer in the nation to offer E15. He hopes others will follow his lead and break with Big Oil and choose the cleaner, more economical and stable renewable fuel, ethanol.
“We see the great opportunity now of being able to give the consumer . . . . . . . . .
Independence
How long should construction take, how long will those 300 construction workers be expected to be there?
DeleteHow many 300 man crews would it take to build out 3,000 distilleries in five years?
568,000 barrels of product annually.
DeleteVehicle fuel self-sufficiency is viable if we blend the fuel a little differently in the 21st century than we did in the 20th.
The balance of payment deficits would shrink, the US economy would improve.
Annual production with 3,000 distilleries of comparable capacity ...
1.7 billion barrels that could be burned with little carbon impact on the environment.
That would be exceptional, wouldn't it.
It looks like it's going to take about a year for the actual construction. So, I guess 3,000 refineries would employ approx. 900,000 Construction workers for a year. Of course, there would be many more people employed in the manufacturing of the equipment - fermenters, wiring, ducting/pipes, grinders, etc.
DeleteAlso, of course, each refinery will employ 40 or 50 Full-time Workers after production begins.
It would, basically, put us out of the "oil importing business."
DeleteAnd, yep, that would be Exceptional (exceptionally bad for Philips 66, and Saudi Arabia.) :)
DeleteWell, I would think that it'd take a while to gear up the production of fermenters etc., '' ....
DeleteBut construction one, if it took a year ...
250 days x 300 workers x 8 hours
600,000 man hours per plant plus or minus.
Build out 3,000 plants over three years,
Adding 600,000,000 hours of employment to the US economy, in each of those three years building out energy infrastructure that will make the US vehicle fuel self-sufficient. Then the peripheral and long range job creation benefits to the program.
As ash related, in most parts of the country vehicles do not last tens years. The technological challenges ethanol may pose to the existing fleet would phase out, with the inexorable march of time.
Just one thing; there really are no technological challenges to the existing fleet. Ethanol burns cooler, and more completely, than gasoline. It's, therefore, better for your engine than dino-juice.
DeleteThe only difference between a non-flexfuel car, and a flexfuel car is the computer program.
A couple of hundred million dollars recycled through the economy each day.
DeleteThe compounding benefits of that ...
As compared to sending that money to the Wahhabi,
Money for nothin' but that oil ain't free.
Just burned up each day, with no other option in sight that would permit US to end our direct financial support of Wahhabi Islam...
I understand that, rufus, but for some people ...
DeleteFacts do not interfere with their opinions ...
Implement RULE 11: “The price of a successful attack is a constructive alternative.”
Never let the enemy score points because you’re caught without a solution to the problem.
This comment has been removed by the author.
DeleteGood Point.
DeleteWhich brings us to the "Rufus Rule #12" - To wit: If you can't dazzle'm with brilliance, baffle'm with bullshit.
:)
The worse case scenario is that for a decade there be a couple more pumps at the station.
DeleteFirst perhaps a single pump in the higher thanol blends, while over time the other pumps would transition on up, until in a decade there would only be one pump with E10, the standard fuel utilized in Phoenix, today.
The others, higher content blends of ethanol, to be used in machines designed, in the public's mind, for that fuel.
The United States can do it, becoming self-sufficient in vehicle fuels, cutting the balance of payment deficit by $200 million per day. Stimulating the US economy from the field to the fuel pump.
Allowing the US to once again provide exceptional economic performance to the people of the United States and the world.
The US economy is the engine the drives the world, we can run that engine on ethanol/petroleum blends and be way ahead.
Delete
Reply
:) Okay, I'm sold; now you've gotta work on a couple of other "ex-elephants." :)
DeleteThere are 80 milion acres producing corn in the US.
Delete45 million acres producing some variety of wheat ...
Cumulatively, USDA paid $10.6 billion—almost one-fourth of total direct payments from 2003 through 2011—to producers who did not, in a given year, plant any of the crop for which they had base acres.
Specifically, during this period, producers cumulatively did not plant more than 633 million acres with the crops associated with their base acres in a given year.
This amounted to an average of 70 million acres each year,
or 26 percent of the 268 million base acres on average that are annually eligible for direct payments.
Put that 80 million acres in switch grass and we could become net exporters of fuel, again.
Wouldn't that be exceptional
"Exceptional" it would be. :)
DeleteHitler took diplomacy as a joke. Hitler had no respect for Chamberlain. Hitler had no respect for the public. Knowing that other European leaders had no stomach for another war, he overplayed his hand. Tens of millions would pay with their lives for the timidity of one side and the delusions of grandeur of the other.
ReplyDeleteI have no doubt that the current Iranian leadership suffers the same malady as the German leadership of 1870, 1914, and 1939, hubris. The names change but the game is the same: hegemony.
Your doubts are not enough, allen, to stop history.
DeleteWhere has the Iranian Army marched, to obtain this hegemony?
You could go back to 1813 and the Treaty of Gulistan, under which Persia was forced to concede territory to Russia. ...
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Then in the 1920s, British forces in Iran under General Edmund Ironside helped put Reza Shah on the Peacock throne.
Iranian Hegemany, where is the history comparable to that of the dates you listed?
We can go back to 1813 and see that Iran has had it's geography sliced and diced, controlled from abroad.
Not a global hegemony with colonies in Africa, as the Germans attempted.
No, once again the attempt to compare Iran with Germany falls flat on it's face. The history from 1813 onward, a longer timeframe than allen used to illustrate German behavior, proves the point.
Iran has been exploited by real hegemonic Europeon powers.since 1812.
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ReplyDeleteSenate passes straight stopgap spending bill with no defunding of Obamacare.
GOP appears confused as to how to react.
Now it is merely a matter of time dependent upon how long the GOP wants to continue their comedy of errors.
http://www.freep.com/usatoday/article/2882971
The GOP might as well get this farce over with so that they can proceed with the even more ludicrous exercise of tying Obmacare defunding to the debt ceiling increase.
The GOP will soon be running out of giant shoes and face paint.
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ReplyDeleteOn another issue the GOP has actually offered up a piece of legislation that can be negotiated.
House proposes reforms on SNAP program.
http://www.detroitnews.com/article/20130927/OPINION01/309270007/Food-stamp-reform-reduces-dependency?odyssey=mod|newswell|text|FRONTPAGE|p
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The USDA is spending an approximate $1 Billion dollars a year to keep 70 million acres of US farmland out of production each year since 2003.
DeleteOne wonders if that part of the "Program" to help the "Farmer" is open to negotiation.
The Federals can garner a lot of dependency spreading around $1 Billion USD to their friends and family, down home on the farm!
DeleteYep, Rat, those $Billions in Farm Subsidies,
Deleteand those $Billions in Tax Credits (Subsidies) for Cadillac Health Plans for Goldman Sachs Employees,
and those $Billions of Tax Subsidies for Millionaires' Mansions by way of the mortgage deduction
don't ever seem to get mentioned in the Tea Party/Republican rants.
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DeleteThe USDA says the program is to stabilize prices. It also argues that there are certain long-term agricultural as well as environmental reasons that argue for set asides to guard against damage due to intensified agriculture. I am not familiar enough with the industry to comment on the latter; however, the former merely appears to me to be a bone thrown to Big Ag.
But then there is plenty to argue about in our farm policy (as well as most every other program coming out of OZ). For instance, there is no reason the US should be paying twice as much as the rest of the world for a commodity like sugar.
Given my limited knowledge of farming, I personally am for the most part against set asides.
I am also against subsidies.
I am definitely against mandates.
If we are intent on spending money on foreign aid, I would be think that from a moral standpoint we would be better offering the world surplus food rather than more guns. Of course, speaking practically the MIC wouldn't stand for that.
However, if you are looking at it from an economic standpoint, I would imagine there might be more jobs producing F-35s than in producing alfalfa.
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Social Securtiy participation is "mandated." Medicare contributions are "mandated." Automobile insurance is mandated. Education for children is "mandated. Some "mandates" are just necessary in an advanced culture.
DeleteAs for F35's, why would the manufacture of airplanes and ethanol be mutually exclusive?
Delete.
DeleteSocial Security is a social program and FICA is a tax. The same applies to Medicare. Automobile insurance is required to assure against any damage you might incur while driving on the public roads. A certain level of education is required to survive in an advanced society. An ethanol mandate is a distortion of the economic system.
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DeleteAs for F35's, why would the manufacture of airplanes and ethanol be mutually exclusive?
I was talking foreign aid, a category where funding is limited therefore a zero sum game. You can send X planes or Y food or some combination of each but the choices are restricted by the amount of money authorized. The last comment merely speculated on which measure involved the most American jobs.
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There is the first $1 billion dollars for the ethanol distillery project.
ReplyDeleteWonder how that $1 billion could be leveraged to start a cycle of economic growth instead of continuing the dependency of the American farmer on the Federal dim..
Although the amount of money involved ...
Much more than a dime.
Yeah $1 Billion USD, that'd 10 billion Federal dimes aye.
Put those 70 million acres back to work.
DeleteGet it back into production!
End farmland welfare, start GROWING the economy!
The USDA would not need a larger budget to start the "Rufus Project", just a new blending of the existing spending, to start.
Delete$1 billion USD would be enough to get that fuel cycle up on two wheels and start it rolling.
. End farmland welfare
Let US start GROWING the economy!
Rat, I figure that by the time they're on the 3rd or 4th of those plants the cost will be in the $100 Million range.
DeleteSo that $Billion/yr would finance 10 Cellulosic Ethanol Plants every Year. It would be a start. :)
Well, rufus, it could provide for even more, when Mitt and the boys start to leverage that $1 Billion USD.
DeleteBet you an Amero to a doughnut that there could be 20 plants up and running with another 50 under construction and an additional 50 in the pipeline at the end of the second year midway through the third year of the project.
The US is an exceptional nation, we can do it!
We CAN Build That!
Let's ....
End Farmland Welfare ...
Let US start GROWING the economy!
Could take eight years to build it out, instead of three.
DeleteIt would not really matter, not in the long term.
We can GROW the US economy!
Not even Q has a better alternative, at least he said he did not have a "Plan" to start job growth.
We have a start, a broad outline.
Coud take real engineers and architects to flesh it out, but, whe n JFKennedy said the US was going to the moon, he did not even have a "Plan".
We're at least a step ahead. We have an outline of a plan and a source of funding, to start.
Yes...
We CAN Build That!
Let's ....
End Farmland Welfare ...
Let US start GROWING the economy!
Le US prove to putin and the nay sayers that ...
The US is still Exceptional!
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DeleteNot even Q has a better alternative, at least he said he did not have a "Plan" to start job growth.
As with many things, rat, you appear confused. The discussion centered around solutions to get us out of our current miasma and create jobs. If we want to spend the money, there are plenty of ways to create jobs. One is infrastructure, roads bridges, airport upgrades, water projects, the grid, items that will help the economy in the short and long run, projects that might take $1 trillion to get us up to world class levels but which would payback multiple times that, projects that are currently eschewed in OZ. There we would rather eat the feed corn, waste it on more bullets.
I didn't mention it because under current conditions it's unlikely to happen. The same applies to Rufus' dream of 3,000 refineries.
Field of Dreams.
"Build it and they will come."
How many refineries producing ethanol blends do we have in the US right now? I don't know. Maybe 150 or so? I seem to recall there were another 50 or 60 planned. Ethanol distilleries? Maybe 300 to 400? The last time I looked the current capacity was keeping up with requirements under the mandate (well, with the exception of the non-corn based stuff) and some capacity was actually shut down.
If I am wrong, let me know.
If I'm right, the three of us will be long gone before that 3,000th biorefinery is built. In the past, I have provided a long list of the impediments to getting those plants built in the short or even medium run. I won't bother going over them again. However, now I see the goal which in the past was 'within a year' to today where is has gone from three years, to five years, to now eight years all within a morning and afternoon. At least, some measure of sanity seems to be creeping in. However, it would likely require a new government mandate and even then the other impediments would remain.
If you guys want to keep dreaming that's fine but don't bring my name into the discussion as rat just did.
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DeleteWhoops, now I see below it has gone to 10 years.
Keep going boys, you seem to be getting more reasonable by the hour.
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You Go, Rat!! :)
ReplyDeleteYou're right, of course. To have 3,000 in 10 years would be easier than falling off a combine. :)
HITLER's War Machine Ran on Alcohol.
ReplyDeleteWhat is it about falling off a combine that's wrong?
ReplyDelete...I resemble that.
Mahindra Dealers are still in The Closet
Delete...but still.
Thou shall not distill.
DeleteClimate Deniers Must Pay a Price
DeleteAlgore tells us so.
SHITFULL upstairs a ways was giving the world a tutorial in Iranian history, and the lessons to be learned therefrom, which means nothing at all because
ReplyDelete1) History never repeats itself
and
2) Nuclear weapons are such that a whole new calculus in needed to even begin to think about them in historical terms
As usual SHITFULL is full of shit.
Now SHITFULL has moved on to farm policy and energy production. and sundry. His qualifications to speak of all these things?
DeleteNothing at all. His only real knowledge comes from working for Unca Sam for awhile in Central America and raising a few cows and horses. He also bowls for recreation and loves to hear himself talk.
40 Percent of Food in the U.S. Never Gets Eaten, Scientific American
ReplyDeletehttp://blogs.scientificamerican.com/guest-blog/2013/09/18/forty-percent-of-food-in-the-us-never-gets-eaten/
Meanwhile, three states now have more than 1/5 residents on food assistance, and the numbers are growing: Mississippi, New Mexico, and Tennessee.
Up in the northwest here most of it goes for export, except for the malting barley which goes to Rufus.
DeleteClimate Deniers Must Pay a Price
DeleteAlgore tells us so.
Taboo Two:
ReplyDelete"Former vice president Al Gore on Monday called for making climate change "denial" a taboo in society.
“Within the market system we have to put a price on carbon, and within the political system, we have to put a price on denial,” Gore said at the Social Good Summit New York City.
“It is simply not acceptable for major companies to mimic the unethical strategy of the tobacco companies in presenting blatantly false information in order to protect a business model,” Gore added, alleging that’s what some oil and coal companies are doing. “There needs to be a political price for denial.”
40 Percent of Food in the U.S. Never Gets Eaten, Scientific American
ReplyDeletehttp://blogs.scientificamerican.com/guest-blog/2013/09/18/forty-percent-of-food-in-the-us-never-gets-eaten/
Meanwhile, three states now have more than 1/5 residents on food assistance, and the numbers are growing: Mississippi, New Mexico, and Tennessee.
When Coal is Outlawed, only Chi-Coms will have Coal.
ReplyDeleteHarry Reid forces vote to Defund Obamacare!
ReplyDeleteHarry Cares!
Honest
Hairy Kerry
Delete"Any senator who votes (to move forward with debate on the House measure) is voting to give Harry Reid the authority to fund Obamacare," Cruz told Bash on Monday
Delete100% of the Republican Senators voted "to give Harry Reid the authority to fund Obamacare,"
And then Harry Reid did.
It sure is interesting on the Republican side of the tracks.
The Democrats are not nearly so much fun to watch.
It may be because they shun the white face paint and big
Worse Than The Civil War
ReplyDelete“It’s dangerous. It’s very dangerous,” Harkin said. “I believe…we are one of the most dangerous points our history right now, every bit as dangerous as the break up of the Union before the Civil War.”
Harkin referred to Republican Senator Ted Cruz and other Tea Party favorites as a “small group of willful” politicians who didn’t get their way in the 2012 election.
Boehner Quietly Plans Second Profession in Hollywood "playing" a Zombie.
ReplyDeleteOrange Zombies will become the new New Thing.
ReplyDeleteI Knewit
ReplyDelete
ReplyDeleteIt is part of the general pattern of misguided policy that our country is now geared to an arms economy which was bred in an artificially induced psychosis of war hysteria and nurtured upon an incessant propaganda of fear.
I participated in this psychosis at Fort Dougie MacArthur, San Pedro, CA.
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DeleteIn the councils of government, we must guard against the acquisition of unwarranted influence, whether sought or unsought, by the military-industrial complex. The potential for the disastrous rise of misplaced power exists and will persist.