The only Israeli mistake was in not sinking the ship and killing all the crew.
At minute 41 we learn what happened. The scheme was to goad the US to attack Egypt with nuclear weapons. Clinton was asked by the ship’s captain McGinagle to investigate the attack.
Had the Israelis successfully sunk the ship, Egypt would have been attacked by the US and Israelis would have suckered the US into the war.
There was an Israeli mistake alright. They didn’t deliver on killing the entire crew and sinking the ship. Had they been successful it is likely that the US would have made a nuclear attack on Cairo.
On minute 50 there is an interesting discussion abot US military aircraft being repainted.
Let me tell you something Allen. This did not come from a book. In 1967 I was stationed at RAF Bentwaters, a US tactical fighte base in East Anglia, England. I was doing some work at the Victor Alert area on that base and watched mechanics painting out the stars and stripes from five Phantom F4s. I was told they were being loaned to Israel. I saw this first hand. I talked to the officer in chatge of the operation.
The Israeli are equivalent to the North Koreans, terrorists that will, lie, steal and kill where ever, when ever and whom ever they need to, to advance their self-perceived "Cause".
To call the Israeli the "Pirates of the Mediterranean" is to be kind, to Israel and Israelis.
Minute 58 tells it all. It was a lie, a coverup and a disgraceful act of treachery. It was an Israeli plan to drag the US into a Middle Eastern war.
At minute 58 we realize the depth of the treachery. Johnson was worried about relations with Israel and the his relationships with American Jews. That was in 1967.
American politicians still refuse to give the USS Liberty the public scrutiny it deserves. American servicemen were murdered by an ally of the United States.
Believe what you see in the video and the testimony of those who were there or what Allen and Wio have to say.
The man who calls himself an American citizen and who yet shows by his actions that he is primarily the citizen of a foreign land, plays a thoroughly mischievous part in the life of our body politic. He has no place here; and the sooner he returns to the land to which he feels his real heart-allegiance, the better it will be for every good American.
The President delivered, slowly to be sure, but he did get 'er done.
U.S. military bases in Iraq are fast becoming ghost towns as America continues to withdraw virtually all of its troops by December 31.
Only 6,000 troops remain in the country - down from a peak of 170,000 at the height of the war in 2007. And of the 505 military bases set up during the eight-year mission, only four continue to have a handful of personnel.
Johnson was in on it from the git-go. The logic falls apart, otherwise.
If Israel acted alone, all my wrath would fall on them. But Johnson covered it up. Now WiO will call us all Nazis, and Allen will go "13 zip" but nobody cares. Truth will out.
I don’t believe Johnson was in on it from the beginning. Johnson, in the spring of 1967, had every intention on running for a second term and was expecting a challenge.
Agents had boarded and examined the ship while it was open to public viewing. DGSE agent Christine Cabon, posing as environmentalist Frederique Bonlieu, volunteered for the Greenpeace office in Auckland. Cabon secretly monitored communications from the Rainbow Warrior, collected maps, and investigated underwater equipment, in order to provide information crucial to the sinking. After the necessary information had been gathered, two DGSE divers beneath the Rainbow Warrior attached two limpet mines and detonated them 10 minutes apart. The first bomb went off 11:38 P.M., creating a large hole about the size of an average car. Agents intended the first mine to cripple the ship so that everybody would be evacuated safely off when the second mine was detonated. However, the crew did not react to the first explosion as the agents had expected. While the ship was initially evacuated, some of the crew returned to the ship to investigate and film the damage. A Portuguese-Dutch photographer, Fernando Pereira, returned below decks to fetch his camera equipment. At 11:45 P.M., the second bomb went off. Pereira drowned in the rapid flooding that followed, and the other ten crew members were either safely evacuated on the order of Captain Peter Willcox or were thrown into the water by the second explosion. The Rainbow Warrior sank four minutes later.
Someday soon, we witnesses to that dreadful time of LBJ will be gone. With our passing will also pass the paranoia and hysteria about the Liberty.
As to those who took the hit aboard the Liberty, I sympathize. But there was/is no way they could know/have known what was going on over on the Israeli side. What is known is that the Israelis had a "WTF" moment immediately upon learning that their target was an American ship of the line. And that is not a feeling; it is a provable fact coming from US interceptions of Israeli air traffic. And with reference to that Israeli air traffic, I would appreciate anyone here who could point me to incriminating from the NSA record.
To my way of thinking, the paranoia is coming from those who believe an inspection about an American ship being attacked by Israel is motivated by anti-semitism.
The video discusses the very air traffic Allen refers to and that is 180 degrees out of phase with his claim.
The IAF was prepped to burn Egyptian soldiers, not attack a ship.
Which is an indicator that there was no a "Grand" conspiracy, but that the Israeli were attacking a target of opportunity.
The search for motive is unnecessary, the facts speak for themselves, the Israeli attacked a US flagged ship, on the high seas. Killing US citizens as they did.
An action they have since replicated, while attacking Turkish flagged shipping on the high seas, killing crew and passengers, to include another US citizen.
Just as the Palestinians attacked a ship on the high seas, and killed a US citizen.
The moral equivalency is more than evident.
The Mediterranean is full of pirates, the Israeli being the best equipped of those scourges of the sea.
You will take a shot at us with family connections to Israel as conflicted - fair enough, in the vacuum of space. But what do you call your own confessed desire to have seen the Union dissolved (again, you get no argument from me)? Whatever your nomenclature, I see your feelings as conflicted at the least.
My feelings are not conflicted at all. There is nothing great about a US President that gets 600,000 Americans killed over a dispute over slavery, at the time dying institution. All one has to do is look and see how many other countries managed to end slavery without resorting to slaughter of their own.
My conflict is I don’t like presidents that get Americans killed unnecessarily.
No one debates the fact that Israel attacked the Liberty.
No one debates the fact that the area was declared a war zone by Israel and America knew and understood that, and evac'd all ships from the area.
No one debates that American service men were killed and injured.
No one debates that American solders killed more American soldiers during Iraq one do to friendly fire.
No one debates that there is something called the"fog of war"
No one can debate the fact that in war enemies do not always tell the truth.
No one can debate that American leaders LIE to the American public all the time about DOZENS of issues. (from Fast and Furious, to the Fed bailout to Iran Contra)
No one CAN PROVE Israeli motives.
No one CAN PROVE why the LIBERY was where it should not be.
Israel in 1967? was fighting for survival. America was 6000 miles from it's home base.
On the issue of the Liberty? I still think some nefarious things were up, and the USA was double dealing and that got the US service men killed and wounded.
Others here think it was a ploy to get the USA to fight Egypt with nukes? That reason is nonsense since that would have invited the SOviets to response with their own nukes. A price to high for AMerica. If America was so ball-less because of Vietnam to sail a ship of the Straits of Tiran (as per it's promises to Israel in 1956 to keep the straits open as a obligation for the RETURN of the sinai) then what would make someone think that the sinking of a intel ship would draw the USA into a nuke war with egypt?
As for the Rat's "pirates of the med" baloney one should remember that the Rat has personally murdered people in central america as a merc (or he claimed as much) so maybe he's projecting, all the while squatting on someone else's land in AZ.
A Nuclear-armed A-4 was launched, almost immediately. That order can only be given by the President of the United States.
The fact that the IMMEDIATE reaction to an attack on an American ship was to nuke Cairo tells me that Johnson expected the Liberty had no chance of surviving. Being an idiot, as well as an evil, manipulative murderer, he did not understand how hard it is to sink an American ship.
Johnson was "mad," alright. He was mad that the Liberty "wouldn't sink," and that the whole operation was falling apart.
The worst miscarriage of Justice in the history of the United States was that Johnson, and McNamara escaped being hung.
The video discusses the very air traffic Allen refers to and that is 180 degrees out of phase with his claim.
Deuce, if this was meant to influence Allen's thinking, you are wasting your time. The argument over the Liberty surfaces frequently here on the blog. However, there were two points over the past two years where it was gone into in great depth. All the 'proof' Allen has been asking for was presented during those periods. The fact is he merely rejects it.
He bases his whole argument on a massive document dump put out by the government, the same government that is being accused of a cover-up. This despite the fact he was presented with copies of FOIA responses indicating to those involved (including the author responsible for Allen's ludicrous 13-0 meme) that some info is classified as secret and would not be released, despite the fact that various military and embassy personnel have verified that the government files are not complete since they are missing documents that those persons had seen and read.
Allen rejects all proof and instead takes the government document dump as his main proof. He proves himself credulous. There is past precedent that says so.
The illogic of this position is clear from another government cover-up, the court martial of Gen. John Lavelle.
In 1972, Nixon and Kissenger framed Lavelle, blaming him for Nixon's secret bombing campaign in North Vietnam. As with the Liberty, there were countless pages of government documents describing the charges and investigation, and as with the Liberty, military personnel were involved in the cover-up.
It took almost 40 years before the truth came out and it wasn't by going through the offficial government documents. It was found by accident by two researchers going through the Nixon tapes, tapes never intended to be made public.
Shit happens in OZ. Those who profess not to belief it are either credulous or lying.
Arguing with Allen is a waste of time. The point you made in yesterday's post is the key one. When it comes to the Liberty, I too will take the word of the crew who sat through hours of attack and refuse to let the lie go unchallenged.
To those who with wishful thinking say "with our passing will also pass the paranoia and hysteria about the Liberty", I say fuck you.
The same Texas Oilmen that had financed Johnson his entire career wanted the Suez Canal. Johnson wanted to "Win a War," and be Reelected.
Now, I'm really guessing, here, but I would think it would take Several hours to rig that A-4 with a Nuclear Package. It would be interesting to know "when" the CO of the U.S.S. America received orders to "Arm" the A-4 with the Nuke.
My brother was a Sea-going Bellhop in the Med. Their Chief Duty aboard the Carrier was to stand guard over the "Nuke Room."
His orders were very specific; shoot any motherfucker, from the Exec on down, who attempted to make an Unauthorized entry into that room. And, the list of "authorized" people was very, very short.
There was Never a time in U.S. history that a Carrier steamed around with a nuclear-armed plane "at the ready." You'll notice that the Marines escorted the Nuke all the way onto the flight deck, even when it was attached to the aircraft.
As for WiO, any opinion he might offer on the subject of the Liberty is suspect. It is obvious he has done little research on the subject if he didn't even know details of the attack such as the ship being hit by a torpedo.
Instead he reads one book by an Israeliphile whack-job and claims he knows the 'real story'. Then he accuses me of not knowing history and being stupid.
Admittedly, I am no Newt Gingrich when it comes to history, but as far as stupid, well I would have to be stupid to accept WiO's Israeli-centric view of modern history.
He's already shown his lack of knowledge of the difference between commercial treaties and defense pacts, 'agreements' (what ever the fuck that is) and written commitments. He fails to recognize that in 1967 the US had bigger fish to fry than Israel.
He says the US has stuck it in Israel's ass yet downplays all the times Israel has stuck it to the US. Instead of thanking the US for the things thay have done for Israel he bemoans the things he thinks the US should have done for Israel and didn't.
It's clear where his sympathies and and possibly loyalties lie.
My point of view is, as always, simple. (many would agree with this)
Deuce has put on a good argument.
WiO and I read what we read that was written by rat.
allen is a slanderous slime ball.
The Sabbath is a big waste of time, designed only to enforce compliance with a mideastern mythic narrative (an extremely good one)whose focus is, creatively, a group, not an individual. (The Patriarchs go 'down' into Egypt - but a people crosses the Red Sea returning.)
We should support Israel in its struggles with the muzzies, for their struggles are our struggles in that regard and for our own benefit and because they are our cultural cousins, brothers, etc.
We should all vote for Bachmann, the best candidate being not available.
Further, we 'western' folk would do well to revisit our own native misplaced and displaced mythology as it was developing in the narratives of the individual search for the grail, by the knights aquesting, entering the forest deep alone.
So much, then, for the first of the inconsistencies involved in the fourth-century priestly narrative deriving all the invading Hebrews of Canaan from the seed of Abraham by way of Egypt. A second difficulty derives from the fact that the Bedouin tribes in question were not of one family but many, having entered Canaan, furthermore, not in one fell swoop but in stages and from various directions. And a third very serious difficulty remains, that already mentioned, of finding a time when Joseph and his brothers could have entered Egypt, to remain.
Let us concede, in short, that no one has yet been able to explain when, how, or why any part of this imposing legend took place, let alone the continuity of it stages. Viewed, however, as a normal origin myth, instead of as a clue to history, the narrative reveals immediately both the form and the function of its message. The form is of a great cycle of descent into the underworld and return. What entered Egypt (Underworld: Land Below The Waves) were the Patriarchs (Joseph into the well and on down to Egypt); what emerged were the People (Passage of the Red Sea).
As in all such myths of descent and return, what is brought forth is a boon or elixir; in the present case: a)the knowledge of Yahweh, b)the nuclear force of the Chosen People, and c)the promise to that people of a destiny, with the gift of a Promised Land. However, in contrast to all other myths of this order, the hero here is not an individual - not even Moses - but the Jewish folk.
In Idaho, ash, a person can wear a gun on his hip and go visiting other folk.
The gun, on its own, does not constitute a threat. Not in Idaho
Idaho is one of our "Gold Star" open carry states. They have full preemption of state laws, open carry is increasingly common and open carry is legal in motor vehicles.
Where are the "fighting words" that are necessary to constitute a threat?
None here gave any credit to WiO's story since none recall ever seeing it. Bob's version is suspect since he has his head up WiO's ass and would agree with whatever WiO put out there.
However, after your performance today I wonder if there might not have been something there that we missed. As Rufus said none but WiO would have taken notice if it had been there.
Posting people's address in public is the reason WiO's good bud, John Loftus, got booted off of Fox News.
ya, hit a sensitive nerve. Funny how a screen moniker on a blog could be construed as something that can be libeled. People take their online persona's seriously.
The Supreme Court on Monday agreed to hear an appeal on the constitutionality of Arizona's controversial immigration law.
...
The court will likely issue an opinion in the case in June -- the same time it is expected to hand down rulings on the Obama Administration's health care law.
Nor has television advertising proven effective — at least so far. Perry has run more ads than any campaign here but has not been able to bounce back from the damage inflicted on his candidacy from debates in September and October.
For some Iowans, particularly younger voters or first-time activists, a campaign waged more on television than in coffee shops may suit them just fine. For veteran activists, who are used to having the chance to meet candidates one-on-one when they come to town, the changes have been less satisfying.
...
If Iowans feel they’re not getting the love from the candidates they got in the past, they can look forward to Jan. 3. Being first to hold a vote still counts.
0.01:18 "We were well known...deliberate...murder..."
The USS Liberty was purchased by the USN in 1965. She performed missions off the WEST COAST of AFRICA until ordered into the eastern Mediterranian just prior to the Six Day War. ___NSA History Report William D. Gerhard and Henry W. Millington, National Security Agency, "Attack on a SIGINT Collector, the USS Liberty", 1981 (p. 5).
So, who knew? And who knew the Liberty well on the Israeli side? Hmm...Israel's accuser doe not say, but he does know.
I may or may not go on with the critique. BBC agitprop "documentaries" attacking the US and Israel are generally easy to disembowel. My first cut proves just how easy. But to what end should I waste my time?
It certainly did not take long for this thread to disintegrate into a gaggle of geniuses slashing one another. Other than one comment by WiO, it is all ... all the way :-)
Huntsman says Iran poses a bigger problem than any other country right now, calling it the “transcendant threat” and saying all options are on the table in dealing with the regime there.
Huntsman said a nuclear Iran would lead Turkey and other nations to build nuclear programs.
“I think all options are on the table, and I do believe we’re going to have a conversation with Israel” when Iran goes nuclear, Huntsman said.
Huntsman said he disagrees with the intervention in Libya because there was no national security interest there.
As for Syria, he suggested more should have been done.
“I couldn’t see a definable national security interest” in Libya, he said. “With Syria, I see it a little differently, because it is a conduit, a pipeline for Iran.”
Gingrich said the Chinese will be the United States’ most important relationship for decades to come.
“The most important relationship of the next 50 years is the American people and the Chinese people,” Gingrich said, differentiating that from the relationship between the governments.
“If you don’t fundamentally rethink what we’re doing here, you cannot compete with China,” Gingrich added. “If we do the right thing here, China can’t compete with us.”
Of Gingrich’s plan to challenge President Obama to similar Lincoln-Douglas style debates, the time-keeper said: “I’ll bet you $10,000 he doesn’t show up.”
Peter Kent said the protocol "does not represent a way forward for Canada" and the country would face crippling fines for failing to meet its targets. ... He said the cost of meeting Canada's obligations under Kyoto would cost $13.6bn (10.3bn euros; £8.7bn): "That's $1,600 from every Canadian family - that's the Kyoto cost to Canadians, that was the legacy of an incompetent liberal government".
BENGHAZI, Libya - Libya's new rulers came under fire from disgruntled protesters for the first time Monday as hundreds rallied in Benghazi, cradle of the uprising that toppled Moamer Kadhafi and brought them to power.
I’m giving it to you straight. You pull that shit again and post someone s surname, phone or address and I will delete everything you ever enter again.
Allen, I am sure the IDF like every other naval and air power on the planet has heard of Jane’s Fighting Ships To suggest otherwise is silly. It is updated continuously.
In 1967 he Sixth Fleet consisted on average 40 ships, 175-250 aircraft and 20 to 25,000 troops. It had nuclear ships and nuclear weapons. The French, British, Russians, all nuclear powers had ships in the Mediterranean. The Spanish, French, British and Russians had aircraft carriers.
Every aircraft carrier has support surface vessel and submarines. The idea that Israel would target a ship that she did not recognize is preposterous.
Israel would never have shot up a Russian, French, an English warship.
The Mexicans, out of California, have formed alliances with the Aryan Brotherhood in those areas of the US where there is not a large Hispanic population for them to swim in.
The FBI has released a new gang assessment announcing that there are 1.4 million gang members in the US, a 40 percent increase since 2009, and that many of these members are getting inside the military (via Stars and Stripes).
The report says the military has seen members from 53 gangs and 100 regions in the U.S. enlist in every branch of the armed forces.
Members of every major street gang, some prison gangs, and outlaw motorcycle gangs (OMGs) have been reported on both U.S. and international military installations.
"We were ordered by our "government" never to speak about this attack; never to say anything about it or we would go to the penitentiary or worse. We all know what worse meant - death."
Whoa, Cowboy, say what? Since “we” were ordered, let’s begin with who “we” were…oh…
Just “who” in the “government” gave this order you “all”? Could it have been two men in black?
Again, “who” threatened to kill you for speaking about the Liberty? Oh, no one did this, but you just “knew” it…Right
When have you guys stopped talking about the attack?
How many have gone to jail for doing so?
How many Liberty survivors ended up mysteriously dead?
I honor your service and am sorry for your loss, but totally unfounded statements like that above do not advance the search for truth.
Oh, that’s right, because you (special you) made the slanderous, uncorroborated statement above against your own government and the dirty Israelis, it must be true.
Right…
You know, Deuce, with such powerful evidence as this I feel my resolve crumbling.
Stars & Stripes reports about that other Gang, Republican House Members
McClatchy Newspapers Published: December 12, 2011
WASHINGTON - House Republicans banned earmarks, a top symbol of congressional profligacy, after they won control of the chamber last fall in a wave of voter anger over excessive government spending.
But more than half of the amendments to this year's House Department of Defense authorization bill were earmarks, according to Democratic Sen. Claire McCaskill of Missouri, a leading congressional critic of the practice.
In a report to be released this week, McCaskill said that the House Armed Services Committee's chairman, Rep. Howard McKeon, R-Calif., set up a system that enabled members to "circumvent the earmark ban" by offering pre-approved amendments that outlined the projects and the funds they hoped to secure for their districts.
No more earmarks and Newt Gingrich was not a lobbyist for Fraudie Mac.
And in a stunning political development, Newt Gingrich has signed a pledge stating he won't bed with anyone but his own wife for as long as he's President.
Summarizing, the Liberty had to be attacked because the Israelis were massacring Egyptian prisoners-of-war because Israel needed to move troops to support the Golan operations and the Liberty could report this…Hmm…
The Liberty was attacked on the 8th of June, but the Golan was not attacked until the 9th. In fact it was not until the early morning hours of the 9th that the Israeli government gave its approval to the attack on the Golan…Hmm…
So, somehow in the dead of night, the IDF was able to disengage in the Sinai and move troops and armor across the Sinai Desert, across Israel (avoiding combat with the Jordanians) and attack the Golan at dawn. Wow! … and all in less than twelve hours.
And where are those mass graves or remains of the poor departed Egyptians? The Egyptians have been suspiciously incurious, but not the ever vigilant Liberty crewmen. So, where are the bodies?
But not to worry, if someone from the Liberty said it, it must be true.
By the way, Mr. Gallo was the president of the USS Liberty Veterans Association. He was the authority in 2009.
Don’t miss the weasel words at 1:58 - "perceived".
Deuce said... If that’s your best shot Allen, let’s change the channel. You really have done better. :-)
Mon Dec 12, 08:02:00 PM EST
Hey, it was straight from the horse's mouth. That is evidence by the way. His reticence to name names is understandable: the dead guy's estate (and it's always a dead guy saying outrageous things) would sue his pants off.
Agreed, these guys should never speak unless first vetted and edited by the BBC (you have got to be kidding - BBC?!).
And where are those mass graves or remains of the poor departed Egyptians? The Egyptians have been suspiciously incurious, but not the ever vigilant Liberty crewmen. So, where are the bodies?
Try looking Allen. It's just not that hard.
You just keep digging the hole deeper.
Go to Google and type in
...1967 war israel kills egyptian prisoners...
You will get a whole list of articles from the NYT, to Time, to Haaretz. And you will notice those pesky Egyptians have complained.
Well, it doesn't matter. The guy was wrong. It didn't have anything to do with Israel being mean to prisoners (yeah, I'm being flip, but you'd have to be a lifer wingnut to believe something like that.)
This was a Big, Balls to the Walls, Monster, International Play.
Ruf, mine was not a comment on the reasons for the Liberty attack. I was merely responding to the comments questioning the Egyptian dead during the 1967 war and the Egyptian response.
Re: murdered prisoners of war in Sinai 1956, 1967 and 1973 depending on the liar
This is from the NYT, 1995, by YOUSSEF M. IBRAHIM. Most other stories feed off this one. By the way, there was no Israeli Brigader General Arieh Borah (google, bing, yahoo et al).
Mubarak tried this in 2007, based upon an idiotic "documentary" having nothing to do with the Six Day War. from Haaretz
How did that work out for him, Quirk?
Quirk, come on, give us a link to some official finding of Israeli guilt stemming from the killing/execution of Egyptian prisoners of war in the Sinai in 1967.
And where are those mass graves or remains of the poor departed Egyptians? The Egyptians have been suspiciously incurious, but not the ever vigilant Liberty crewmen. So, where are the bodies?
In the interest of fair-play, there is a report of "dozens" of Egyptians protesting the killing of prisoners of war by Israel in the 1967 war. This massive, spontaneous outpouring of rage occurred in 2007. Do we have a "2008", "2009"..."2011"?
The same dozens would have welcomed Quirk as the messiah had they been so ordered.
Proof, gentlemen, produce it. Try the BBC again. No doubt they have something in stock for every anti-American and/or anti-Israeli contingency.
"Egyptian members of parliament are furious over a statement made by Minister of Foreign Affairs Ahmed Abul Gheit that "Egypt won't cut relations with Israel over a film".
Muslim Brotherhood MP Hussein Ibrahim said Mr Abul Gheit's statement was an insult to all Egyptians."
How unreasonable and unpatriotic of Minister Gheit. Of course, one goes to war based on propaganda. No slander is too much when directed at the Zionist entity.
Of course the Muslim Brotherhood is as reliable in its Israel reporting as the NYT, the Liberty Association and Quirk.
And where are those mass graves or remains of the poor departed Egyptians? The Egyptians have been suspiciously incurious, but not the ever vigilant Liberty crewmen. So, where are the bodies?
You asked about mass graves and said the Egyptians disn't care. I pointed you to articles showing that in fact the Egyptians did protest the killings, not people in the street but officially.
The articles also posited reasons why Egyptian officials might be suspiciously uncurious.
I have no opinion on whether any killings in the Sinai impacted on Israel's decision to attack the Liberty. I don't care what reasons they had only that they did it.
However, the execution of POW stories have been around for a good long time. You would have to be quite unawares not to have heard of them.
From the Time article,
In 1995, a similar crisis broke out when some Israeli veterans said that they had executed Egyptian soldiers in the 1956 and 1967 wars. These disclosures led to the discovery of mass graves near the city of Al-Arish in the Sinai containing the remains of Egyptian civilians and POWs. Thousands of soldiers are still listed as missing from the quick and crushing defeat of 1967, and many families are still wondering about the fate of their fathers and brothers.
I only do links. You have a link - I will look. No linky - No looky
And here is why.
Alan Sabrosky, PhD, has a raft of videos and interviews on YouTube. Why, he even has a "bio" on a Palestinian blog. He claims to have been a Marine, Vietnam vet, director of course studies at the Army War College. Additionally, his articles appear in publications of the Teutonic sort.
And Quirk, he just KNOWS, KNOWS, KNOWS that Mossad took down the towers etc on 9/11, working with Jew traitors in the US government.
Use any search engine you like or as many as you like and see if you can find a biography on this highly accomplished hero and public figure.
Again, I have no idea what happened about any of this, just that there are no perfect people.
Neither do I Bob. People have said what they have seen or done. What's the real story? Who knows. I was just responding to Allen's silly remarks about the absence of mass graves and that Egypt didn't bother protesting.
Alan Sabrosky, PhD, has a raft of videos and interviews on YouTube. Why, he even has a "bio" on a Palestinian blog. He claims to have been a Marine, Vietnam vet, director of course studies at the Army War College. Additionally, his articles appear in publications of the Teutonic sort.
Allen I noticed that you visit some pretty weird websites. You are the only person I am aware of, on this blog or my regular life, who has visited a David Duke website much less posted it here.
Perhaps if you stuck to more main stream stuff you wouldn't exibit such paranoia.
I cannot help but notice your excessive use of "red herring" and "child" when you go into your "little red hen" scold routine.
My posting the ramblings and slanders of your peers is embarrassing, I know, but name calling is not rebuttal and your barfing of factoids is not truth.
:-)
You have addressed nothing substantively. Calling me names, no matter how personally satisfying is not debate.
I cannot help but notice your excessive use of "red herring" and "child" when you go into your "little red hen" scold routine.
It only appears excessive because your use of logical fallicies in your arguments is excessive. You are like a child. In any discussion of any length we reach that point where you must veer off into some strange Allen-land comment that has nothing to do with the subject at hand.
The term 'can't walk and chew gum at the same time' comes to mind.
Responding to Allen’s challenge.
ReplyDeleteAt 17 minutes the audacity of the lie becomes apparent.
ReplyDeleteThe Israeli attack was meant to sink the ship and kill the crew. Dead men tell no tales.
ReplyDeleteWatch this video if you have any interest in the truth. The Israelis were attacking life rafts hours after the beginning of the attack.
ReplyDeleteAt thirty minutes into the film the Israeli lobby goes into overdrive. The New York Times led the story on Page 29
ReplyDeleteHell if I know.
ReplyDeleteAt 20 minutes, it says they knew the frequencies.
b
The only Israeli mistake was in not sinking the ship and killing all the crew.
ReplyDeleteAt minute 41 we learn what happened. The scheme was to goad the US to attack Egypt with nuclear weapons. Clinton was asked by the ship’s captain McGinagle to investigate the attack.
Had the Israelis successfully sunk the ship, Egypt would have been attacked by the US and Israelis would have suckered the US into the war.
There was an Israeli mistake alright. They didn’t deliver on killing the entire crew and sinking the ship. Had they been successful it is likely that the US would have made a nuclear attack on Cairo.
On minute 50 there is an interesting discussion abot US military aircraft being repainted.
ReplyDeleteLet me tell you something Allen. This did not come from a book. In 1967 I was stationed at RAF Bentwaters, a US tactical fighte base in East Anglia, England. I was doing some work at the Victor Alert area on that base and watched mechanics painting out the stars and stripes from five Phantom F4s. I was told they were being loaned to Israel. I saw this first hand. I talked to the officer in chatge of the operation.
The Israeli are equivalent to the North Koreans, terrorists that will, lie, steal and kill where ever, when ever and whom ever they need to, to advance their self-perceived "Cause".
ReplyDeleteTo call the Israeli the
"Pirates of the Mediterranean"
is to be kind, to Israel and Israelis.
They knew the frequencies. That's understandable.
ReplyDeleteBut they jammed them.
b
Minute 58 tells it all. It was a lie, a coverup and a disgraceful act of treachery. It was an Israeli plan to drag the US into a Middle Eastern war.
ReplyDeleteAt minute 58 we realize the depth of the treachery. Johnson was worried about relations with Israel and the his relationships with American Jews. That was in 1967.
American politicians still refuse to give the USS Liberty the public scrutiny it deserves. American servicemen were murdered by an ally of the United States.
Believe what you see in the video and the testimony of those who were there or what Allen and Wio have to say.
allen said…
ReplyDeleteArticle III, Section 3
Treason
Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying War against them, or in adhering to their Enemies, giving them Aid and Comfort...
Sun Dec 11, 08:20:00 PM EST.
I doubt you will see this video broadcast on any major US media station.
ReplyDeleteIf anyone has a video that shows any survivor from the USS Liberty that refutes the claims made in this important video, I will post it.
ReplyDeleteTheodore Roosevelt - President of the United States
"Our allegiance must be purely to the United States. We must unsparingly condemn any man who holds any other allegiance."
Mr Roosevelt went on to say ...
ReplyDeleteThe man who calls himself an American citizen and who yet shows by his actions that he is primarily the citizen of a foreign land, plays a thoroughly mischievous part in the life of our body politic. He has no place here; and the sooner he returns to the land to which he feels his real heart-allegiance, the better it will be for every good American.
Success, at last, in Iraq.
ReplyDeleteIt is over, over there.
The President delivered, slowly to be sure, but he did get 'er done.
U.S. military bases in Iraq are fast becoming ghost towns as America continues to withdraw virtually all of its troops by December 31.
Only 6,000 troops remain in the country - down from a peak of 170,000 at the height of the war in 2007. And of the 505 military bases set up during the eight-year mission, only four continue to have a handful of personnel.
Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2073060/Ghost-Towns-The-surreal-sight-abandoned-U-S-bases-Iraq-troops-return-home-thousands.html#ixzz1gJq1znEM
Oh, and for those that care ...
ReplyDeleteOsama was found in Pakistan and is now dead as a door nail.
Time to leave Afghanistan.
Johnson was in on it from the git-go. The logic falls apart, otherwise.
ReplyDeleteRufus II said...
ReplyDeleteJohnson was in on it from the git-go. The logic falls apart, otherwise.
If Israel acted alone, all my wrath would fall on them. But Johnson covered it up. Now WiO will call us all Nazis, and Allen will go "13 zip" but nobody cares. Truth will out.
I don't believe that Johnson merely "covered it up." I have to think that he was, at the least, in on the planning.
ReplyDeleteI don’t believe Johnson was in on it from the beginning. Johnson, in the spring of 1967, had every intention on running for a second term and was expecting a challenge.
ReplyDeleteI think he Desperately wanted to "Win" a War
ReplyDelete(and, of course, shore up his Jewish support.)
Deuce said...
ReplyDeleteThe Israeli attack was meant to sink the ship and kill the crew. Dead men tell no tales.
Sink?
Last time I checked burning the towers off the ship wouldnt sink it..
I guess the Israelis didnt have BOMBS????
After all what naval ship has even been SUNK using napalm?
this is how the french SINK a ship:
ReplyDeleteAgents had boarded and examined the ship while it was open to public viewing. DGSE agent Christine Cabon, posing as environmentalist Frederique Bonlieu, volunteered for the Greenpeace office in Auckland. Cabon secretly monitored communications from the Rainbow Warrior, collected maps, and investigated underwater equipment, in order to provide information crucial to the sinking. After the necessary information had been gathered, two DGSE divers beneath the Rainbow Warrior attached two limpet mines and detonated them 10 minutes apart. The first bomb went off 11:38 P.M., creating a large hole about the size of an average car. Agents intended the first mine to cripple the ship so that everybody would be evacuated safely off when the second mine was detonated. However, the crew did not react to the first explosion as the agents had expected. While the ship was initially evacuated, some of the crew returned to the ship to investigate and film the damage. A Portuguese-Dutch photographer, Fernando Pereira, returned below decks to fetch his camera equipment. At 11:45 P.M., the second bomb went off. Pereira drowned in the rapid flooding that followed, and the other ten crew members were either safely evacuated on the order of Captain Peter Willcox or were thrown into the water by the second explosion. The Rainbow Warrior sank four minutes later.
Allen wrote this;
ReplyDeleteSomeday soon, we witnesses to that dreadful time of LBJ will be gone. With our passing will also pass the paranoia and hysteria about the Liberty.
As to those who took the hit aboard the Liberty, I sympathize. But there was/is no way they could know/have known what was going on over on the Israeli side. What is known is that the Israelis had a "WTF" moment immediately upon learning that their target was an American ship of the line. And that is not a feeling; it is a provable fact coming from US interceptions of Israeli air traffic. And with reference to that Israeli air traffic, I would appreciate anyone here who could point me to incriminating from the NSA record.
To my way of thinking, the paranoia is coming from those who believe an inspection about an American ship being attacked by Israel is motivated by anti-semitism.
The video discusses the very air traffic Allen refers to and that is 180 degrees out of phase with his claim.
Anonymous said...
ReplyDeleteDeuce said...
The Israeli attack was meant to sink the ship and kill the crew. Dead men tell no tales.
Sink?
You have to calm down and watch the video. The ship was hit with torpedos.
this is how the japs sink an american ship
ReplyDeleteplease notice the use of actual BOMBs.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xUJ_9s1q8zI
amazing...
they used BOMBS to sink the ship..
I do see how Israel used torpedos against the liberty.
ReplyDeletethat i was mistaken.
it seems that one torpedo caused most of the deaths.
The IAF was prepped to burn Egyptian soldiers, not attack a ship.
ReplyDeleteWhich is an indicator that there was no a "Grand" conspiracy, but that the Israeli were attacking a target of opportunity.
The search for motive is unnecessary, the facts speak for themselves, the Israeli attacked a US flagged ship, on the high seas.
Killing US citizens as they did.
An action they have since replicated, while attacking Turkish flagged shipping on the high seas, killing crew and passengers, to include another US citizen.
Just as the Palestinians attacked a ship on the high seas, and killed a US citizen.
The moral equivalency is more than evident.
The Mediterranean is full of pirates, the Israeli being the best equipped of those scourges of the sea.
Allen also said something very interesting;
ReplyDeleteYou will take a shot at us with family connections to Israel as conflicted - fair enough, in the vacuum of space. But what do you call your own confessed desire to have seen the Union dissolved (again, you get no argument from me)? Whatever your nomenclature, I see your feelings as conflicted at the least.
My feelings are not conflicted at all. There is nothing great about a US President that gets 600,000 Americans killed over a dispute over slavery, at the time dying institution. All one has to do is look and see how many other countries managed to end slavery without resorting to slaughter of their own.
My conflict is I don’t like presidents that get Americans killed unnecessarily.
A torpedo fired at the waterline of a ship has the singular purpose of sinking it. Planes do not sit on runways with torpedos attached.
ReplyDeleteGood story on Jon Corzine and MF Global
ReplyDelete"A Romance With Risk That Brought On a Panic"
http://dealbook.nytimes.com/2011/12/11/a-romance-with-risk-that-brought-on-a-panic/?hp
No one debates the fact that Israel attacked the Liberty.
ReplyDeleteNo one debates the fact that the area was declared a war zone by Israel and America knew and understood that, and evac'd all ships from the area.
No one debates that American service men were killed and injured.
No one debates that American solders killed more American soldiers during Iraq one do to friendly fire.
No one debates that there is something called the"fog of war"
No one can debate the fact that in war enemies do not always tell the truth.
No one can debate that American leaders LIE to the American public all the time about DOZENS of issues. (from Fast and Furious, to the Fed bailout to Iran Contra)
No one CAN PROVE Israeli motives.
No one CAN PROVE why the LIBERY was where it should not be.
Israel in 1967? was fighting for survival. America was 6000 miles from it's home base.
On the issue of the Liberty? I still think some nefarious things were up, and the USA was double dealing and that got the US service men killed and wounded.
Others here think it was a ploy to get the USA to fight Egypt with nukes? That reason is nonsense since that would have invited the SOviets to response with their own nukes. A price to high for AMerica. If America was so ball-less because of Vietnam to sail a ship of the Straits of Tiran (as per it's promises to Israel in 1956 to keep the straits open as a obligation for the RETURN of the sinai) then what would make someone think that the sinking of a intel ship would draw the USA into a nuke war with egypt?
As for the Rat's "pirates of the med" baloney one should remember that the Rat has personally murdered people in central america as a merc (or he claimed as much) so maybe he's projecting, all the while squatting on someone else's land in AZ.
Things must be tough on the Zionists, as the lies continue, this time about me.
ReplyDeleteAs they'll continue to tell the same worn out lie about me, they continue to lie about the USS Liberty, Palestine, Islam and other aspects of history.
Anyone who wants to claim that I am murderer, confessed to it, no less, is challenged, again to link to the supposed "confession".
For the Zionist the telling o a lie, to support their cause, seems to be sanctioned by their God.
Just as it is for the Islamoids.
Birds of a feather, flocking together, in northern Arabia.
A Nuclear-armed A-4 was launched, almost immediately. That order can only be given by the President of the United States.
ReplyDeleteThe fact that the IMMEDIATE reaction to an attack on an American ship was to nuke Cairo tells me that Johnson expected the Liberty had no chance of surviving. Being an idiot, as well as an evil, manipulative murderer, he did not understand how hard it is to sink an American ship.
Johnson was "mad," alright. He was mad that the Liberty "wouldn't sink," and that the whole operation was falling apart.
The worst miscarriage of Justice in the history of the United States was that Johnson, and McNamara escaped being hung.
.
ReplyDeleteThe video discusses the very air traffic Allen refers to and that is 180 degrees out of phase with his claim.
Deuce, if this was meant to influence Allen's thinking, you are wasting your time. The argument over the Liberty surfaces frequently here on the blog. However, there were two points over the past two years where it was gone into in great depth. All the 'proof' Allen has been asking for was presented during those periods. The fact is he merely rejects it.
He bases his whole argument on a massive document dump put out by the government, the same government that is being accused of a cover-up. This despite the fact he was presented with copies of FOIA responses indicating to those involved (including the author responsible for Allen's ludicrous 13-0 meme) that some info is classified as secret and would not be released, despite the fact that various military and embassy personnel have verified that the government files are not complete since they are missing documents that those persons had seen and read.
Allen rejects all proof and instead takes the government document dump as his main proof.
He proves himself credulous. There is past precedent that says so.
The illogic of this position is clear from another government cover-up, the court martial of Gen. John Lavelle.
In 1972, Nixon and Kissenger framed Lavelle, blaming him for Nixon's secret bombing campaign in North Vietnam. As with the Liberty, there were countless pages of government documents describing the charges and investigation, and as with the Liberty, military personnel were involved in the cover-up.
It took almost 40 years before the truth came out and it wasn't by going through the offficial government documents. It was found by accident by two researchers going through the Nixon tapes, tapes never intended to be made public.
Shit happens in OZ. Those who profess not to belief it are either credulous or lying.
Arguing with Allen is a waste of time. The point you made in yesterday's post is the key one. When it comes to the Liberty, I too will take the word of the crew who sat through hours of attack and refuse to let the lie go unchallenged.
To those who with wishful thinking say "with our passing will also pass the paranoia and hysteria about the Liberty", I say fuck you.
.
The same Texas Oilmen that had financed Johnson his entire career wanted the Suez Canal. Johnson wanted to "Win a War," and be Reelected.
ReplyDeleteNow, I'm really guessing, here, but I would think it would take Several hours to rig that A-4 with a Nuclear Package. It would be interesting to know "when" the CO of the U.S.S. America received orders to "Arm" the A-4 with the Nuke.
My brother was a Sea-going Bellhop in the Med. Their Chief Duty aboard the Carrier was to stand guard over the "Nuke Room."
ReplyDeleteHis orders were very specific; shoot any motherfucker, from the Exec on down, who attempted to make an Unauthorized entry into that room. And, the list of "authorized" people was very, very short.
There was Never a time in U.S. history that a Carrier steamed around with a nuclear-armed plane "at the ready." You'll notice that the Marines escorted the Nuke all the way onto the flight deck, even when it was attached to the aircraft.
.
ReplyDeleteAs for WiO, any opinion he might offer on the subject of the Liberty is suspect. It is obvious he has done little research on the subject if he didn't even know details of the attack such as the ship being hit by a torpedo.
Instead he reads one book by an Israeliphile whack-job and claims he knows the 'real story'. Then he accuses me of not knowing history and being stupid.
Admittedly, I am no Newt Gingrich when it comes to history, but as far as stupid, well I would have to be stupid to accept WiO's Israeli-centric view of modern history.
He's already shown his lack of knowledge of the difference between commercial treaties and defense pacts, 'agreements' (what ever the fuck that is) and written commitments. He fails to recognize that in 1967 the US had bigger fish to fry than Israel.
He says the US has stuck it in Israel's ass yet downplays all the times Israel has stuck it to the US. Instead of thanking the US for the things thay have done for Israel he bemoans the things he thinks the US should have done for Israel and didn't.
It's clear where his sympathies and and possibly loyalties lie.
.
My point of view is, as always, simple. (many would agree with this)
ReplyDeleteDeuce has put on a good argument.
WiO and I read what we read that was written by rat.
allen is a slanderous slime ball.
The Sabbath is a big waste of time, designed only to enforce compliance with a mideastern mythic narrative (an extremely good one)whose focus is, creatively, a group, not an individual. (The Patriarchs go 'down' into Egypt - but a people crosses the Red Sea returning.)
We should support Israel in its struggles with the muzzies, for their struggles are our struggles in that regard and for our own benefit and because they are our cultural cousins, brothers, etc.
We should all vote for Bachmann, the best candidate being not available.
b
What did you read, boobie?
ReplyDeleteA quote would be of interest.
A quote with a reference would be preferable to the continued libel.
As you did write, as many here will recall, that I never "confessed".
I used an "euphemism" you said.
Euphemism referring to what specific actions, in my life, you were never able to make clear.
Let's see the quote, the euphemism, and the context it was supposedly used in.
Further, we 'western' folk would do well to revisit our own native misplaced and displaced mythology as it was developing in the narratives of the individual search for the grail, by the knights aquesting, entering the forest deep alone.
ReplyDeleteb
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ReplyDeleteJudaism, Mohammedism, Mormonism, Catholicism, Protestantism - All Cults.
ReplyDeleteWe should use our common sense, and take G. Washington's sage advice, "stay free of entangling alliances."
And, heed Dwight Eisenhower's sage advice, and "beware the Military/Industrial Complex."
ReplyDeleteSo much, then, for the first of the inconsistencies involved in the fourth-century priestly narrative deriving all the invading Hebrews of Canaan from the seed of Abraham by way of Egypt. A second difficulty derives from the fact that the Bedouin tribes in question were not of one family but many, having entered Canaan, furthermore, not in one fell swoop but in stages and from various directions. And a third very serious difficulty remains, that already mentioned, of finding a time when Joseph and his brothers could have entered Egypt, to remain.
ReplyDeleteLet us concede, in short, that no one has yet been able to explain when, how, or why any part of this imposing legend took place, let alone the continuity of it stages. Viewed, however, as a normal origin myth, instead of as a clue to history, the narrative reveals immediately both the form and the function of its message. The form is of a great cycle of descent into the underworld and return. What entered Egypt (Underworld: Land Below The Waves) were the Patriarchs (Joseph into the well and on down to Egypt); what emerged were the People (Passage of the Red Sea).
As in all such myths of descent and return, what is brought forth is a boon or elixir; in the present case: a)the knowledge of Yahweh, b)the nuclear force of the Chosen People, and c)the promise to that people of a destiny, with the gift of a Promised Land. However, in contrast to all other myths of this order, the hero here is not an individual - not even Moses - but the Jewish folk.
J. Campbell "Creative Mythology"
'tis quite a narrative, you must admit that.....
b
Yep, WiO, who I don't know and have never communicated with, WiO and I made it all up.
ReplyDeleteYou wrote what you wrote.
'tis finished, far as I'm concerned.
b
Anybody watch Tebow pull it off again yesterday?
ReplyDeleteThere's a guy I'm starting to believe is divinely guided.
b
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ReplyDeleteI've read virtually every thread since the creation of the blog, and I never saw anything like what you and Wio are claiming.
ReplyDeleteAnd, Deuce states "flat out" that he's read "Every" thread, and he can't recall ever reading such a thing.
No other reader has ever chimed in, and supported your, and Wios' contention.
I don't believe it happened.
(not that I would particularly care if it did.)
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ReplyDeleteWhat does the C. stand for?
ReplyDeleteRat, I know Bob "outed" himself in the past, but you might be carrying it a bit too far.
ReplyDeleteIt's no big thing; Hell, no one pays any attention to Bob or Wio, anyway.
Owner of New Jersey Nets To Run Against Putin
ReplyDeleteWhat in the hell is a Russian doing owning the New Jersey Nets in the first place?
My dad always said we should have strict rules about foreigners owning things - and land - in the USA, and I still agree with him.
b
He is in a nursing home now methinks. Tebow, divinely inspired, the second coming - oh, my, the end is near.
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
ReplyDeleteAw, you shouldn't be doing that, Rat. you never know what deranged person might click on for the first time, on the day that you publish that info.
ReplyDeleteIt's not good for Deuce's blog, and it could even be dangerous to the "outed."
No sense in it.
Even though he Did do it to himself.
ReplyDeleteHe did, indeed.
ReplyDeleteHe's posted lies about me, I've posted the "truth" about him.
ReplyDeleteDeranged, I couldn't give a shit
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ReplyDeleteIdaho, a good destination, for a shooting vacation.
ReplyDeleteLots of good sport shooting, there.
Elk fer sur, wolves, too.
Even those in sheep's clothing.
oh grrreat rats gone habu on us. You outed yourself back in the day rat.
ReplyDeletemats is another one here who has threatened to take arguments here offline and physical.
ReplyDeletesad stuff really.
Haven't lived in Lewiston for years. As the market is bad, it is rented out. If the markets improve, I'll sell it. It served it's purpose.
ReplyDeleteb
You mean to say, boobie, that you filed a false address on your zoning application, in 2010?
ReplyDeleteOne should not lie or folk will think you're a Zionist.
ReplyDeleteTwo things that can easily be conflated.
While Zionism and Judaism, cannot.
Crapper, get some kind of life.
ReplyDeleteGo out and cheat on your wife or something, if you have to.
Kindly, don't threaten to come up here and shoot me, again.
It was my address of record at the time, crapper, if it means a lot to you.
b
Physical?
ReplyDeleteWhat gave you an idea that there'd be physics involved, ash?
Threaten, you, boobie ....
ReplyDeleteWhy would say such thing?
Where is the threat?
Quote it to me, please.
It'll be right here, on this thread.
There is certainly no threat posted on this thread.
ReplyDeleteJust as there never was an admission to a crime.
Let's see, there is mention of discussion, in person.
ReplyDeleteThere is mention of hunting elk and wolves. Two of the benefits of visiting Idaho, you've mentioned before.
Where is there a threat, to your person?
Looks to me as if you are reading things that are not there, boobie.
ReplyDeleterat wrote:
ReplyDelete"It is not that far, to Idaho.
Maybe we'll have to discuss it, in person."
Followed by
"Idaho, a good destination, for a shooting vacation."
Could certainly be deemed a threat by a jury of your peers.
You are right, Ash.
ReplyDeleteIt's sad.
This place is sad.
I'm gonna go exercise my hip in a cheery mall.
b
Well, you Did insinuate "something physical," Rat. Now, Bob's taken it a step further, and claiming you want to "shoot" him.
ReplyDeleteEnough, already. The next thing you know you get Deuces blog closed down for "threats, and incitements to violence."
Please, for the rest of our sakes', "quit it." :)
Could?
ReplyDeleteNah.
Two separate items. One a discussion with boobie, the other another activity while I'm in Idaho, visiting.
boobie has regaled us with tales of hunting wolves, and I've got the itch.
Remember, ash, I get the benefit of doubt.
IDAHO BIG GAME HUNTING OUTFITTERS - Elk Hunting, Deer ...
www.castlecreekoutfitters.com/
IDAHO BIG GAME HUNTING - Elk Hunting, Deer Hunting, Bear Hunting, Lion Hunts, Sheep Hunts, and Upland Game Hunts.
There was no threat.
There was discussion of vacationing in Idaho.
boobie's interpretation of euphemisms do not constitute a threat.
ReplyDeleteThat you folk in Canada don't have the opportunity to go sport shooting while on vacation, that COULD lead you to misinterpret the discussion.
But for us in the US, sport shooting comes as second nature.
The discussion of hunting, and the possession of a firearm do not constitute threats of shooting a person.
.
ReplyDeleteShould not be that hard to find him, if I need to go lookin'.
Hard to tell is you are a whack-job or just a dick.
.
In Idaho, ash, a person can wear a gun on his hip and go visiting other folk.
ReplyDeleteThe gun, on its own, does not constitute a threat.
Not in Idaho
Idaho is one of our "Gold Star" open carry states. They have full preemption of state laws, open carry is increasingly common and open carry is legal in motor vehicles.
Where are the "fighting words" that are necessary to constitute a threat?
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ReplyDeleteJust a dick, lookin' for conversation, up close and personal.
ReplyDeleteLike to look folks in the eye, as they lie.
Hate to think I'd go all that way and not shoot something.
ReplyDeleteNot when the hunting in Idaho is reported to be oh so good.
sport hunting eh? shoot a bird or two, a boobie maybe?
ReplyDeleteI don't like to fly, so I'll just drive.
ReplyDeleteSeein' the USA in my Chevrolet.
.
ReplyDeleteNone here gave any credit to WiO's story since none recall ever seeing it. Bob's version is suspect since he has his head up WiO's ass and would agree with whatever WiO put out there.
However, after your performance today I wonder if there might not have been something there that we missed. As Rufus said none but WiO would have taken notice if it had been there.
Posting people's address in public is the reason WiO's good bud, John Loftus, got booted off of Fox News.
.
That was a job that fella had, Q?
ReplyDeleteIf I was paid, here, perhaps I'd take a different track.
But I'm not, so I won't.
No, I was libeled. Repeatedly.
That you think that the libel is not to important, your opinion, one that from my perspective is flawed.
I figure to fight lies with truth.
May as well let the whirled know just who and where the liars are.
.
ReplyDeleteBullshit.
If you had any sense you'd pull down the posts with the addresses before Deuce shows up and does it for you.
At least you could make a pretense of being sensible.
.
An Excellent Assessment of Bakken/Alaskan Oil Production
ReplyDeleteThe Best I've read.
I don't blame you for being pissed, Rat. But, that is probably a really bad precedent to set.
ReplyDeleteYou need to "take one for the team :)," here, and take that post down.
Deuce can do what he wants.
ReplyDeleteI make no pretense of being "sensible" when defending myself from libel.
Anything but, from here on out.
BTW, Tax Collections are up nicely for Oct/Nov, year over year - despite losing about $25 Billion to the 2% reduction in Soc Sec tax.
ReplyDeleteRight now, the economy is definitely picking up some steam. We'll see what happens the first of the year when oil/gas prices start escalating again.
.
ReplyDeleteI make no pretense of being "sensible" when defending myself from libel.
Looks like they did get into your head.
Who woulda thunk it.
:)
.
ya, hit a sensitive nerve. Funny how a screen moniker on a blog could be construed as something that can be libeled. People take their online persona's seriously.
ReplyDeleteYou are those bits...
The Supreme Court on Monday agreed to hear an appeal on the constitutionality of Arizona's controversial immigration law.
ReplyDelete...
The court will likely issue an opinion in the case in June -- the same time it is expected to hand down rulings on the Obama Administration's health care law.
Nor has television advertising proven effective — at least so far. Perry has run more ads than any campaign here but has not been able to bounce back from the damage inflicted on his candidacy from debates in September and October.
ReplyDeleteFor some Iowans, particularly younger voters or first-time activists, a campaign waged more on television than in coffee shops may suit them just fine. For veteran activists, who are used to having the chance to meet candidates one-on-one when they come to town, the changes have been less satisfying.
...
If Iowans feel they’re not getting the love from the candidates they got in the past, they can look forward to Jan. 3. Being first to hold a vote still counts.
0.01:18
ReplyDelete"We were well known...deliberate...murder..."
The USS Liberty was purchased by the USN in 1965. She performed missions off the WEST COAST of AFRICA until ordered into the eastern Mediterranian just prior to the Six Day War.
___NSA History Report William D. Gerhard and Henry W. Millington, National Security Agency, "Attack on a SIGINT Collector, the USS Liberty", 1981 (p. 5).
So, who knew? And who knew the Liberty well on the Israeli side? Hmm...Israel's accuser doe not say, but he does know.
I may or may not go on with the critique. BBC agitprop "documentaries" attacking the US and Israel are generally easy to disembowel. My first cut proves just how easy. But to what end should I waste my time?
It certainly did not take long for this thread to disintegrate into a gaggle of geniuses slashing one another. Other than one comment by WiO, it is all ... all the way :-)
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ReplyDeleteAnother facet to be added in the development of the character.
ReplyDeleteMay as well, as not.
Don't want to disappoint the reader, stagnating in the swill, as it were.
So, we'll step up the rhetoric and expand the play, too.
Four Dead in Ohio
Huntsman says Iran poses a bigger problem than any other country right now, calling it the “transcendant threat” and saying all options are on the table in dealing with the regime there.
ReplyDeleteHuntsman said a nuclear Iran would lead Turkey and other nations to build nuclear programs.
“I think all options are on the table, and I do believe we’re going to have a conversation with Israel” when Iran goes nuclear, Huntsman said.
Re: erasing inconvenient facts, thoughts, statements, comments...
ReplyDeleteYep! That's my point. Thanks!
One might say as the corollary, "Add if you need it bad."
That Jewish Candyman could sure dance a jig.
ReplyDeleteHuntsman said he disagrees with the intervention in Libya because there was no national security interest there.
ReplyDeleteAs for Syria, he suggested more should have been done.
“I couldn’t see a definable national security interest” in Libya, he said. “With Syria, I see it a little differently, because it is a conduit, a pipeline for Iran.”
There's nothin' quite like the quest for that transcendent moment, eatin' chocolate from the Emporium.
ReplyDeleteGingrich said the Chinese will be the United States’ most important relationship for decades to come.
ReplyDelete“The most important relationship of the next 50 years is the American people and the Chinese people,” Gingrich said, differentiating that from the relationship between the governments.
“If you don’t fundamentally rethink what we’re doing here, you cannot compete with China,” Gingrich added. “If we do the right thing here, China can’t compete with us.”
“I can’t wait to compare and contrast this format with the Donald Trump debate,” Huntsman said.
ReplyDeleteHuntsman has passed on participating in the Trump-moderated debate, but Gingrich is taking part.
Of Gingrich’s plan to challenge President Obama to similar Lincoln-Douglas style debates, the time-keeper said: “I’ll bet you $10,000 he doesn’t show up.”
ReplyDelete
ReplyDelete(AP) - Canada's environment minister says the country is pulling out of the Kyoto Protocol on climate change.
ReplyDeletePeter Kent said the protocol "does not represent a way forward for Canada" and the country would face crippling fines for failing to meet its targets.
...
He said the cost of meeting Canada's obligations under Kyoto would cost $13.6bn (10.3bn euros; £8.7bn): "That's $1,600 from every Canadian family - that's the Kyoto cost to Canadians, that was the legacy of an incompetent liberal government".
ReplyDeleteBENGHAZI, Libya - Libya's new rulers came under fire from disgruntled protesters for the first time Monday as hundreds rallied in Benghazi, cradle of the uprising that toppled Moamer Kadhafi and brought them to power.
D Rat,
ReplyDeleteI’m giving it to you straight. You pull that shit again and post someone s surname, phone or address and I will delete everything you ever enter again.
There you go, amigo.
ReplyDeleteDo what you need to do.
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ReplyDeleteDo you know how few mail order candy confectioners there are in Ohio?
ReplyDeleteAnd how many fewer than that are kosher?
I just read most of your comments. You are nuts.
ReplyDeleteAnd how many fewer than that make it their "lead".
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
ReplyDeleteAllen, I am sure the IDF like every other naval and air power on the planet has heard of Jane’s Fighting Ships To suggest otherwise is silly. It is updated continuously.
ReplyDeleteIn 1967 he Sixth Fleet consisted on average 40 ships, 175-250 aircraft and 20 to 25,000 troops. It had nuclear ships and nuclear weapons. The French, British, Russians, all nuclear powers had ships in the Mediterranean. The Spanish, French, British and Russians had aircraft carriers.
Every aircraft carrier has support surface vessel and submarines. The idea that Israel would target a ship that she did not recognize is preposterous.
Israel would never have shot up a Russian, French, an English warship.
Especially one accused of murder.
ReplyDeleteWiO,
ReplyDelete...sorry...two comments...
Damn...And I defended you today.
ReplyDeleteRat, Are you Drinking? :)
ReplyDeleteYeah rat, chill out dude.
ReplyDeleteStand down!!
Better, yet; Lay Down. :)
ReplyDeleteNo drinkin' here.
ReplyDeleteNo bullshit, either.
May as well play the role.
Do you have any idea how pervasive the Mexican drug cartels are, in the US, now a days? They have chapters in every major city.
All interconnected.
The Mexicans, out of California, have formed alliances with the Aryan Brotherhood in those areas of the US where there is not a large Hispanic population for them to swim in.
ReplyDeleteProxies, you know ...
Many of them fells are pretty well trained
ReplyDeleteThe FBI has released a new gang assessment announcing that there are 1.4 million gang members in the US, a 40 percent increase since 2009, and that many of these members are getting inside the military (via Stars and Stripes).
The report says the military has seen members from 53 gangs and 100 regions in the U.S. enlist in every branch of the armed forces.
Members of every major street gang, some prison gangs, and outlaw motorcycle gangs (OMGs) have been reported on both U.S. and international military installations.
Read more: http://articles.businessinsider.com/2011-10-22/news/30309693_1_gang-members-law-enforcement-weapons#ixzz1gN6xNdlU
Interview with USS Liberty Survivor Phil Tourney Part 1
ReplyDeleteAt 5:00:
"We were ordered by our "government" never to speak about this attack; never to say anything about it or we would go to the penitentiary or worse. We all know what worse meant - death."
Whoa, Cowboy, say what? Since “we” were ordered, let’s begin with who “we” were…oh…
Just “who” in the “government” gave this order you “all”? Could it have been two men in black?
Again, “who” threatened to kill you for speaking about the Liberty? Oh, no one did this, but you just “knew” it…Right
When have you guys stopped talking about the attack?
How many have gone to jail for doing so?
How many Liberty survivors ended up mysteriously dead?
I honor your service and am sorry for your loss, but totally unfounded statements like that above do not advance the search for truth.
Oh, that’s right, because you (special you) made the slanderous, uncorroborated statement above against your own government and the dirty Israelis, it must be true.
Right…
You know, Deuce, with such powerful evidence as this I feel my resolve crumbling.
:-)
Stars & Stripes reports about that other Gang, Republican House Members
ReplyDeleteMcClatchy Newspapers
Published: December 12, 2011
WASHINGTON - House Republicans banned earmarks, a top symbol of congressional profligacy, after they won control of the chamber last fall in a wave of voter anger over excessive government spending.
But more than half of the amendments to this year's House Department of Defense authorization bill were earmarks, according to Democratic Sen. Claire McCaskill of Missouri, a leading congressional critic of the practice.
In a report to be released this week, McCaskill said that the House Armed Services Committee's chairman, Rep. Howard McKeon, R-Calif., set up a system that enabled members to "circumvent the earmark ban" by offering pre-approved amendments that outlined the projects and the funds they hoped to secure for their districts.
No more earmarks and Newt Gingrich was not a lobbyist for Fraudie Mac.
If that’s your best shot Allen, let’s change the channel. You really have done better. :-)
ReplyDelete
ReplyDeleteAnthony Kennedy Is The Most Powerful Man In The Country Right Now.
And with Obamacare coming up too....
Why it's important to elect some, any, Republican to be President.
You may hate the lawyers, but at times and circumstances, they run the country.
b
Now, That be a stone-cold fact.
ReplyDeleteI wonder if Obammie would like to reconsider those remarks at the Joint Session along about now.
ReplyDeleteAnd in a stunning political development, Newt Gingrich has signed a pledge stating he won't bed with anyone but his own wife for as long as he's President.
ReplyDelete(what's he supposed to do, refuse?)
Think about that for a minute.....
What a country....
b
Michael Savage will give Gingrich $1 million if he quits the race.
ReplyDeleteCan’t we all just get along?
ReplyDeleteUSS Liberty 06 08 2009
ReplyDeleteMr. Ernest Gallo, at 1:25-2:00
Summarizing, the Liberty had to be attacked because the Israelis were massacring Egyptian prisoners-of-war because Israel needed to move troops to support the Golan operations and the Liberty could report this…Hmm…
The Liberty was attacked on the 8th of June, but the Golan was not attacked until the 9th. In fact it was not until the early morning hours of the 9th that the Israeli government gave its approval to the attack on the Golan…Hmm…
So, somehow in the dead of night, the IDF was able to disengage in the Sinai and move troops and armor across the Sinai Desert, across Israel (avoiding combat with the Jordanians) and attack the Golan at dawn. Wow! … and all in less than twelve hours.
And where are those mass graves or remains of the poor departed Egyptians? The Egyptians have been suspiciously incurious, but not the ever vigilant Liberty crewmen. So, where are the bodies?
But not to worry, if someone from the Liberty said it, it must be true.
By the way, Mr. Gallo was the president of the USS Liberty Veterans Association. He was the authority in 2009.
Don’t miss the weasel words at 1:58 - "perceived".
Deuce said...
ReplyDeleteIf that’s your best shot Allen, let’s change the channel. You really have done better. :-)
Mon Dec 12, 08:02:00 PM EST
Hey, it was straight from the horse's mouth. That is evidence by the way. His reticence to name names is understandable: the dead guy's estate (and it's always a dead guy saying outrageous things) would sue his pants off.
Agreed, these guys should never speak unless first vetted and edited by the BBC (you have got to be kidding - BBC?!).
Teresita said...
ReplyDeleteMichael Savage will give Gingrich $1 million if he quits the race.
Mon Dec 12, 08:51:00 PM EST
Chump change, jeez....
b
That wouldn't even pay off newt's Tiffany account.
ReplyDeleteReally.
Well, maybe it would - but it'd be close. ;)
If Newt turns it down, it would be the first time he refused to do something for a million dollars.
ReplyDeleteRomney ought to make Gingrich a decent offer to get out....say $30 million.
ReplyDeleteI think this would legal, too, as there is no office yet involved, like in the Blago case.
And Romney can afford it. Would hardly miss it.
b
You're right Miss T, may be the first time, but the stakes are higher here, and there may be more bids in the offing.
ReplyDeleteb
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ReplyDeleteAnd where are those mass graves or remains of the poor departed Egyptians? The Egyptians have been suspiciously incurious, but not the ever vigilant Liberty crewmen. So, where are the bodies?
Try looking Allen. It's just not that hard.
You just keep digging the hole deeper.
Go to Google and type in
...1967 war israel kills egyptian prisoners...
You will get a whole list of articles from the NYT, to Time, to Haaretz. And you will notice those pesky Egyptians have complained.
.
Habeas corpus?
ReplyDeleteHere
b
Well, it doesn't matter. The guy was wrong. It didn't have anything to do with Israel being mean to prisoners (yeah, I'm being flip, but you'd have to be a lifer wingnut to believe something like that.)
ReplyDeleteThis was a Big, Balls to the Walls, Monster, International Play.
The speed with which they had the A-4 "nuked-up" gives it away.
ReplyDeleteThen, calling it back when the Liberty refused to sink . . . .
I bet ol lbj had some really nasty things to say about the effectiveness of the Israeli Navy/Air Force.
I don't know what the hell happened but somehow I doubt we were - or rather LBJ was - going to drop a nuke on Cairo.
ReplyDeleteBut I may well be an innocent naive lamb....
b
Well, we were sure as hell going to nuke something.
ReplyDelete.
ReplyDeleteRuf, mine was not a comment on the reasons for the Liberty attack. I was merely responding to the comments questioning the Egyptian dead during the 1967 war and the Egyptian response.
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Yeah, I gathered that, Q.
ReplyDeleteJohnson got away with one audacious act after another (including, possibly, killing an American President.)
ReplyDeleteI find it entirely believable that he would try to pull off a "false flag, followed by Nuclear Attack on Cairo" scenario.
Re: murdered prisoners of war in Sinai 1956, 1967 and 1973 depending on the liar
ReplyDeleteThis is from the NYT, 1995, by YOUSSEF M. IBRAHIM. Most other stories feed off this one. By the way, there was no Israeli Brigader General Arieh Borah (google, bing, yahoo et al).
Egypt Says Israelis Killed P.O.W.'s in '67 War
Mubarak tried this in 2007, based upon an idiotic "documentary" having nothing to do with the Six Day War.
from Haaretz
How did that work out for him, Quirk?
Quirk, come on, give us a link to some official finding of Israeli guilt stemming from the killing/execution of Egyptian prisoners of war in the Sinai in 1967.
:-)
...saw this from Haaretz, 2007, and laughed aloud...
Dozens protest in Egypt against alleged Israeli killing of POWs in 1967 war
...got that, Quirk, "dozens" protested...
:-D))))
Just google "LBJ/Brown and Root"
ReplyDeleteIt makes for some fascinating reading.
Re:
ReplyDeleteAnd where are those mass graves or remains of the poor departed Egyptians? The Egyptians have been suspiciously incurious, but not the ever vigilant Liberty crewmen. So, where are the bodies?
In the interest of fair-play, there is a report of "dozens" of Egyptians protesting the killing of prisoners of war by Israel in the 1967 war. This massive, spontaneous outpouring of rage occurred in 2007. Do we have a "2008", "2009"..."2011"?
The same dozens would have welcomed Quirk as the messiah had they been so ordered.
Proof, gentlemen, produce it. Try the BBC again. No doubt they have something in stock for every anti-American and/or anti-Israeli contingency.
...out of Egypt, 2007
ReplyDeleteHas anyone else noticed that these stories originated in March 2007?
Egypt shows 1967 'killings' films
"Egyptian members of parliament are furious over a statement made by Minister of Foreign Affairs Ahmed Abul Gheit that "Egypt won't cut relations with Israel over a film".
Muslim Brotherhood MP Hussein Ibrahim said Mr Abul Gheit's statement was an insult to all Egyptians."
How unreasonable and unpatriotic of Minister Gheit. Of course, one goes to war based on propaganda. No slander is too much when directed at the Zionist entity.
Of course the Muslim Brotherhood is as reliable in its Israel reporting as the NYT, the Liberty Association and Quirk.
...lights out...
ReplyDeleteIt's been real.
.
ReplyDeleteRe:
And where are those mass graves or remains of the poor departed Egyptians? The Egyptians have been suspiciously incurious, but not the ever vigilant Liberty crewmen. So, where are the bodies?
You asked about mass graves and said the Egyptians disn't care. I pointed you to articles showing that in fact the Egyptians did protest the killings, not people in the street but officially.
The articles also posited reasons why Egyptian officials might be suspiciously uncurious.
I have no opinion on whether any killings in the Sinai impacted on Israel's decision to attack the Liberty. I don't care what reasons they had only that they did it.
However, the execution of POW stories have been around for a good long time. You would have to be quite unawares not to have heard of them.
From the Time article,
In 1995, a similar crisis broke out when some Israeli veterans said that they had executed Egyptian soldiers in the 1956 and 1967 wars. These disclosures led to the discovery of mass graves near the city of Al-Arish in the Sinai containing the remains of Egyptian civilians and POWs. Thousands of soldiers are still listed as missing from the quick and crushing defeat of 1967, and many families are still wondering about the fate of their fathers and brothers.
.
Interesting blog.
ReplyDeleteNow we have one of the bartenders, Desert Rat, actually making threats of harm to myself and to Bob.
So sad....
I guess my time here is over.
I could put up with the zionist bashing, israel trashing and rampant accusations of dual loyalities.
However I want it to be on record.
If a certain ex-military merc called "desert rat" tries to do me harm where I live, I will defend myself.
Let me repeat, I will defend myself with lethal force.
If the bartender Rat, comes to my home or business, I will consider that a threat of life to myself and I will defend myself.
Am I clear?
The blog is over the line.
Israeli veterans said that they had executed Egyptian soldiers in the 1956 and 1967 wars.
ReplyDeleteWell why in the world would we believe them.....
b
It's certainly over the line, I agree with that.
ReplyDeleteI also think it not that unusual that soldiers do things in the heat of war they wish they hadn't done later.
So it doesn't surprise me some older Israelis might say yes we did some things we now feel badly about.
Again, I have no idea what happened about any of this, just that there are no perfect people.
We have after all had our My Lais.
b
Quirk,
ReplyDeleteI only do links. You have a link - I will look. No linky - No looky
And here is why.
Alan Sabrosky, PhD, has a raft of videos and interviews on YouTube. Why, he even has a "bio" on a Palestinian blog. He claims to have been a Marine, Vietnam vet, director of course studies at the Army War College. Additionally, his articles appear in publications of the Teutonic sort.
And Quirk, he just KNOWS, KNOWS, KNOWS that Mossad took down the towers etc on 9/11, working with Jew traitors in the US government.
Use any search engine you like or as many as you like and see if you can find a biography on this highly accomplished hero and public figure.
Why The Military Knows Israel Did 9/11
Enjoy! He's singing your song.
:-)
I think I'll try and wrap my participation up too.
ReplyDeleteSome of it is just too damn stupid.
b
WiO said...
ReplyDeleteThe blog is over the line.
Tue Dec 13, 12:14:00 AM EST
You were outted by DR? It was you he threatened?
.
ReplyDeleteAllen I referenced you to a Google page. You went to it. Then you referenced the NYT article and said all the rest were along the same lines.
I had assumed you had read the Time article since it is only two down from the NYT article.
Time
You act as if this is the first time you have heard these charges. If so, you need to get out more.
.
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ReplyDeleteAnd Quirk, he just KNOWS, KNOWS, KNOWS that Mossad took down the towers etc on 9/11, working with Jew traitors in the US government.
Once again you play the child Allen. Another red herring. Another non sequiter.
Perhaps I should repost that Dr. Seuss story I composed for you.
.
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ReplyDeleteAgain, I have no idea what happened about any of this, just that there are no perfect people.
Neither do I Bob. People have said what they have seen or done. What's the real story? Who knows. I was just responding to Allen's silly remarks about the absence of mass graves and that Egypt didn't bother protesting.
.
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ReplyDeleteAlan Sabrosky, PhD, has a raft of videos and interviews on YouTube. Why, he even has a "bio" on a Palestinian blog. He claims to have been a Marine, Vietnam vet, director of course studies at the Army War College. Additionally, his articles appear in publications of the Teutonic sort.
Allen I noticed that you visit some pretty weird websites. You are the only person I am aware of, on this blog or my regular life, who has visited a David Duke website much less posted it here.
Perhaps if you stuck to more main stream stuff you wouldn't exibit such paranoia.
.
Quirk,
ReplyDeletein toto - Bunk!
I cannot help but notice your excessive use of "red herring" and "child" when you go into your "little red hen" scold routine.
My posting the ramblings and slanders of your peers is embarrassing, I know, but name calling is not rebuttal and your barfing of factoids is not truth.
:-)
You have addressed nothing substantively. Calling me names, no matter how personally satisfying is not debate.
.
ReplyDeleteI cannot help but notice your excessive use of "red herring" and "child" when you go into your "little red hen" scold routine.
It only appears excessive because your use of logical fallicies in your arguments is excessive. You are like a child. In any discussion of any length we reach that point where you must veer off into some strange Allen-land comment that has nothing to do with the subject at hand.
The term 'can't walk and chew gum at the same time' comes to mind.
.