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Saturday, July 25, 2009

Government Motors Announces Rebate Program

July 25, 2009
Dealers see dollars in Treasure Valley clunkers
A federal rebate is bringing back customers after car sellers endured a spell of sagging sales

BY BILL ROBERTS - broberts@idahostatesman.com

A federal rebate is bringing back customers after car sellers endured a spell of sagging sales Vicki Duckett put herself behind the wheel of a new car Friday, and a $4,500 rebate from the federal government helped get her there.

Duckett, of Boise, took home a 2009 Hyundai Sonata, which gets about 25 miles a gallon, while giving up her 1993 Mazda Navajo, which she says gets only 13 miles a gallon.

"It's a huge gas savings," said Duckett, who is buying from Bronco Motors in Boise. "It kind of all worked out for us."

Duckett is among the Idahoans taking advantage of the federal government's Car Allowance Rebate System - dubbed "cash for clunkers" - which gives new car buyers up to $4,500 off qualified vehicles if they trade in their gas-guzzling older models. Dealers get a small fee for handling the clunkers, which will be subject to strict salvage rules that ensure the engines will be destroyed.

Dealers began registering Friday with the federal government to qualify for the program. The government Web site collapsed under the pressure of too many people trying to sign on at the same time, a National Highway Traffic Safety Administration spokesman said.

New-car dealers, which have seen anemic sales for much of the past year, think the clunkers rebate could increase business up to 20 percent. Used-car dealers think the rebate could raise the prices of older models as vehicles that otherwise might have gone to their lots go to salvage instead. And iSuppli Corp., which follows the auto tech market, worries that the bump in sales today could steal from sales later, when the country begins to emerge from the recession.

Some dealers laud the program for putting real money in the hands of consumers.

"It will help the producers, American consumers and employment," said D.J. Wiebold, general manager of Dan Wiebold Ford in Nampa.

By Friday afternoon, Wiebold already had 10 customers ready to buy new cars and dump their old ones. Grant Petersen Jr., president and CEO of Bronco Motors, which sells Nissans and Hyundais, had 25 potential sales lined up.

Petersen said his dealership has been making conditional sales with customers who have qualifying vehicles and the right paperwork for the program. They can take home new cars while Bronco Motors awaits word on its expected certification to be a part of the federal program. Wiebold is taking deposits on cars that people hope to get under the program.

While the government hopes to take about 250,000 old cars off the road, not every old vehicle qualifies.

Most vehicles must be from the 1984 model year or newer. Nathan Herren's 1978 F150 Ford pickup is too old. He jokes that his truck gets 10 miles to the gallon on a "good, mostly downhill travel day."

If the truck qualified, it might have headed to the boneyard. "$4,500 is nothing to sneeze at," said Herren, who lives near Eagle. "That is way better than even a down payment."

Cash for clunkers, however, did get Duckett out of her normal shopping place for vehicles: used-car lots. Between the government rebate and dealer incentives, she figures she has saved about $8,000 on the cost of her new car.

"I can see how this is an effective part of the stimulus," she said.

Used-car customers seem to be a main target for the rebate, Wiebold said. Wiebold is offering a 2009 Ford Focus for $8,995, about $7,000 off the retail price with the government rebate and other incentives. "You can't buy a used Focus for that," he said.

Used-car dealers aren't sure how the rebate for new cars will affect them. Petersen thinks older-model used cars will hold their value "because the supply is going to go away." But for people looking for that $2,000 used car that will drive until it drops, the hunt may take longer than usual. "Those cars are not going to be easy to find," Petersen said.

Duckett plans to have her new car any day. She's pleased with her deal.

"I love this," she said. "My car is only worth about $1,000."
__________________________________

What have we come to?

Before you get all indignant, remember that the US economy is in a "whirled of hurt" and it needs all the stimulus it can get. What's $4500 per clunker in the grand scope of things? Besides, doncha' remember? It's Government Motors now, so they can run the rebates. Only this time, they get to dictate terms and conditions and this deal is "oh so green". Think of what this does for Mother Nature; all those old inefficient engines, forever destroyed. Believe it or not this will make cap and trade more palatable too as we'll have fewer hydro-carbons to mitigate. Oh what a win-win situation. Thank you, Obama.

It's a good thing that most of those trade-ins will have no collectible value because there won't be many numbers matching old cars in the future. We could see more resto-mods, ala Cuba, where everyday is a car show. Future resto mods willl have electric motors or rice rocket fours and sixes so you can forget about the throaty sound of a big V8. That's a small sacrifice.

Don't even think about the fact that Uncle Sam has become Aunt Samantha and is now trying to dole out the money as fast as her minions in Washington can print it. Evidently, this crew in D.C. feel that it's all or nothing. Forget about the trillion dollar deficits, ignore the mounting debt.





Come on down to Government Motors
where we have a $4500 check with your name on it.
While you're here, don't forget to ask about our weatherization program or our Universal Health Care plan.

Aunt Samantha* has you covered from cradle to grave.
*A division of Socialists International

149 comments:

  1. The inmates are running the asylum.

    We're well and truly screwed.

    But, heh, heh, I have at last count 13 or 14 old wheeled vehicles scattered about the place, the bane of my neighbors and children.

    I'll just wait and go Cuban on the bastards.

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  2. Think about this:

    " But for people looking for that $2,000 used car that will drive until it drops, the hunt may take longer than usual. "Those cars are not going to be easy to find," Petersen said.

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  3. It's sad, Whit. Many people need just those cars at a free market place price, not some discounted piece of throwaway fabrication, subsidized by taxes and inflated dollars that they shouldn't be buying anyhow in a sane whirled. All they're doing in Washington and Sacramento is prolonging and intensifying the agony for those least able to afford it.

    I had to drive a rental Dodge Grand Caravan for a couple of days not long ago while my car was being repaired. It was a piece of shit compared with the Caravan I took on a cross-country trip with my kids back in '92.

    Just wait until Government Motors models hit the roads.

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  4. Workers:
    I detect cynicism.
    Have faith, Dear Leader knows all.
    PBUH

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  5. Are you the new hall monitor, Doug?

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  6. Worker linearthinker:

    That's above my paygrade.

    Comrade Doug

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  7. Why Obamacare Is Sinking
    - Krauthammer

    What happened to Obamacare? Rhetoric met reality. As both candidate and president, the master rhetorician could conjure a world in which he bestows upon you health-care nirvana:
    more coverage, less cost.

    But you can’t fake it in legislation. Once you commit your fantasies to words and numbers, the Congressional Budget Office comes along and declares that the emperor has no clothes.

    President Obama premised the need for reform on the claim that medical costs are destroying the economy. True. But now we learn — surprise! — that universal coverage increases costs. The congressional Democrats’ health-care plans, says the CBO, increase costs in the range of $1 trillion plus.

    In response, the president retreated to a demand that any bill he sign be revenue-neutral. But that’s classic misdirection: If the fierce urgency of health-care reform is to radically reduce costs that are producing budget-destroying deficits, revenue neutrality (by definition) leaves us on precisely the same path to insolvency that Obama himself declares unsustainable.
    ---
    Tort reform would yield tens of billions in savings. Yet you cannot find it in the Democratic bills. And Obama breathed not a word about it in the full hour of his health-care news conference. Why? No mystery. The Democrats are parasitically dependent on huge donations from trial lawyers.

    Didn’t Obama promise a new politics that puts people over special interests? Sure. And now he promises expanded, portable, secure, higher-quality medical care — at lower cost! The only thing he hasn’t promised is to extirpate evil from the human heart. That legislation will be introduced next week.

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  8. Government Motors?
    The lady bought a Hyundai!

    Which are nice, little, Korean built cars.

    Any idea of the total budgeted for the incentive stimulous Program?

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  9. This comment has been removed by the author.

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  10. So, doug, if Super K is correct, then electing Obama is not going to be the disaster you predicted?

    Turning out, when reality met the road, to be but more of the same, with floral flourishes, that I thought we'd get from TeamObamamerica, aye?

    Staying the course overseas and now, here at home.
    As the Leviathan lumbers along.

    If Super K is correct.

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  11. As to the Clunkers, AZ instituted a program that subsidize Natural Gas hybrids. Eight, ten tears ago.
    Big tax credit was provided. So dealers put little NG tanks and conversions on their Suburbans and Excursions and sold the shit out of them.

    Then the buyers never used the NG capability of the 'Hybrids'.

    It was wonderful.

    For the car dealers and the buyers.

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  12. Even with a solid Democratic majority in the House, along with a filibuster proof Senate, Team Obamamerica cannot "get 'er done".

    Legally.

    So all they have to do, now ...
    Get Mr Biden to sign a finding?

    ala the Cheney precedents ...

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  13. CARS
    : What's the price tag?

    A: About $4 billion. The money is currently proposed to come from Energy Department funding included in the already enacted $787 billion economic stimulus package.


    Don't know about the $ figure but it was reported that Transportation is handling the program.

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  14. June 18 Business week says it's a $1 billion program.

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  15. Sotomofo is a Radical Racist Disaster.

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  16. Been a long time since I've agreed with Noonan, much less an entire column...

    Common Sense May Sink ObamaCare
    Peggy Noonan

    So this might be an unarticulated public fear:

    When everyone pays for the same health-care system, the overseers will feel more and more a right to tell you how to live, which simple joys are allowed and which are not.

    Americans in the most personal, daily ways feel they are less free than they used to be. And they are right, they are less free.

    Who wants more of that?

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  17. Probably, those people that are living in pain due to lack of healthcare. All Ten Million, or so.

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  18. As Government Programs go, this is a Good One.

    These vehicles were sending a couple of thousand a year, overseas - and, a goodly amount of that to the jihadists.

    Looked at over 20 years that would be, maybe between $20,000.00 at today's oil prices, and who knows how much at future prices.

    Meantime, it creates "action," and excitement in the marketplace (never a bad thing if you're teetering on the edge of perpetual recession.

    Kinda like a Giant "Lottery." Except, this time it's not limited to a bunch of fat-assed bankers, and lawyers. I'm a fan.

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  19. Last time you said 50 million, Rufus:
    Things are getting better fast!

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  20. BTW, most of the Hyundai's sold in the U.S. are probably made in the U.S.

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  21. All 50 Million are not living in "pain," Doug. In fact, I surely exagerrated with the 10 Million, but, hey, it's a Blog.

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  22. Doug, out of the fifty million, at least ten are illegals. Hopefully, we won't end up "insuring" them. Also, a goodly number are, actually, eligible for programs such as SCHIP, now. They just haven't gotten sick (and, thus, covered, yet.)

    The New Program should, actually, end up insuring (and, collecting premiums from) between 10, and 20 Million.

    BTW, don't misunderstand the politics of this. It will get done. The Republicans, like Grassley, want it just as badly as many of the Dems (if not, more so.)

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  23. Guys, those old politicians can read "polls." ALL the new voters, this year, went Dem. ALL of them.

    The Republicans always lose the 18 - 35 demographic. This year they got slaughtered in it.

    Those guys know that to get reelected, and win future elections they have to improve in the demographic. They'll NEVER "Win" it, but they've Got To Get SOME of it.

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  24. It's exactly that demographic that will have to subsidize the poor and elderly through forced participation in a program which by and large they don't or think they don't need. This is cost shifting from Medicare to Universal. Medicare will reduce services in exchange for financial relief.

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  25. Look, we are, pretty much, old fat (to varying degrees,) white men. We are a powerful demographic at the balot box. We know where the polling station is, and we DO vote.

    However, we're Not the Only Demographic. The "Newest" 5 Million Voters, this year, voted "Overwhelmingly" Democrat.

    I have a youngish son, and daughter. I couldn't have gotten them down to the polling station to vote "Republican" this year with a horsewhip. Hell, I could, "Barely," get myself to go vote for ol' mccrazy

    I'll give you a group to watch. Watch the Senators from states that have One Democrat Senator, and One Republican Senator. I'll betcha they vote 90% for the final healthcare bill.

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  26. Weekly Leading Economic Indicators say we're, definitely, coming out of recession.

    This indicator has been extremely accurate in the past.

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  27. Of course, in the past we weren't bumping up against "peak oil."

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  28. From Foreign Policy Passport:

    An entrepreneur in Jerusalem is using Twitter to bring the prayers of the Jewish Diaspora to the Western Wall. After seeing the social networking site's potential in last month's Iranian elections, Alon Nil began a service where Jews abroad could tweet him their prayers, which he then prints out and places in the sacred spaces between the 2,000-year-old stones at Judaism's holiest site. Nil has been besieged with messages since he started the "hobby" three weeks ago:

    You name the country, I've gotten prayers from them. I hope in some way that by tweeting their prayers, these people are helping themselves somehow. Once you figure out what you want, in 140 characters or less, you can start to take action.

    I'm swamped. I can't keep up with all the tweets...But I'm determined to not lose even one prayer.






    Does this work better than our housekeeper's method of keeping a candle burning all day in front of the St. Rita figurine we purchased in a fit of mirth in our neighborhood dollar store?

    It might.




    I don't get it, rufus, how you swing weekly between rants on the dirty fucking commies of this admin, on the one hand, and relatively blithe endorsements of same on the other. But I am in awe of your flexibility.

    Doug, on the other hand, shoots for apoplectic consistency, the only downside of which is its long term wear and tear.

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  29. It's simple, Trish; I try not to confuse the "message" with the "Messenger."

    Also, I try not to drink Anyone's Kool-Aid. If I'm in favor of "Healthcare for (and, supported by) Everyone," I'm in favor of it. It doesn't matter who might be promoting it at the present.

    If I'm scared to death of too much "Liberal/Fascism," I'm scared of it. Even if they do support some of the things I support.

    I "Try" to think for myself.

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  30. Trish, the Only species I put below "Politicians" on the Tree of Life is the "subset" of politicians known as "Preachers."

    I put "Conservative" politicians only "Very Slightly" above Liberal/Fascist Politicians. Well, actually, even that isn't true. I make NO Distinction between politicians, per se - Only in the "Professed" beliefs.

    They're ALL Scum.

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  31. Well, even that isn't "exactly" right. There has to be a "Few" decent human beings among the population of politicians.

    It's just that the non-decent human being percentage is so large (and, so adept at the "Con,) that trying to separate out the "Decent" would be an intolerable task.

    It's just safer to assume that ALL snakes are poisonous, and ALL Politicians are Trash.

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  32. "I try not to drink Anyone's Kool-Aid."

    Me either, but that's why my rants here at the Bar are now well-nigh limited to foreign meteorological issues.

    I expressly associate the Angry Fix with Kool-Aid drinkers. Whatever flavor they partake of. (It's only unusual to come upon an instance of full-bore rant one week, and concerted feather-smoothing the next.)

    This war taught me many things, often enough at my own expense. One of those things: That we can fuck up so royally, chew a shit sandwich from here til Sunday next year, and still manage to keep things afloat and chugging along.

    A more or less philosophical take on things, and not without either its optimism or good humor. Or appreciation for who, at the end of the day, we are.

    Many years ago when my husband was doing JSTARS a flight mechanic friend of ours called the E8 a "brick with wings." Really, the damn thing shouldn't fly. But it does.

    That's my shorthand for a lot of things now, some days the whole enchilada: Brick with wings. It shouldn't fly, but lo and behold it does. Thank God.

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  33. Here's your "Original" Brick with Wings - F-4 Phantom

    It flew, but its missiles usually didn't.

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  34. We have, without a doubt, the most Superior system of electing legislators of any country in the world.

    Unlike the "Parliamentary" systems, our "Representatives" have to answer, directly, to the people from the small area in which they live. They just can't get "Too Far" out of line with the people that elected them.

    What those people want may not suit me, nor thee, but it suits "them."

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  35. And, no, that's not intended as a glib dismissal of pointed and passionate criticism of any given policy or policy proposal.

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  36. On the other hand, we have the more "deliberative" Senate, which acts as an insulator against the more volatile "passions of the day."

    Taken, together, it's an incredibly good system.

    It only screws up "most" of the time.

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  37. If we Didn't have the Loud, and Raucous (sp?) "Partisans," however, we'd have to "invent" them. They're the "fuel" that powers the machine.

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  38. Hyundai built a US factory?

    That makes it a tad more palatble.

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  39. Hard to kill the Leviathan, trish, tough even to wound it.

    It will lumber on, to where ever it ends up, which is always portrayed as where we were planning to go.

    It being easier to move the goal posts than change course.

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  40. If we Didn't have the Loud, and Raucous (sp?) "Partisans," however, we'd have to "invent" them. They're the "fuel" that powers the machine.

    Sat Jul 25, 02:08:00 PM EDT

    In a sense, they are. But here you have TWO forces at work: A permanent bureaucracy which, though itself paradoxically is always in transition, reform, and chaos, keeps a more or less steady state - and activists pushing for a fresh one or hoping for a reset to name-your-year.

    Partisans are kind of like the UN: You want to get rid of them, until (as one Cato guy put it) you realize that they really do serve their purposes on the margin.

    I'm gonna catch a lot flak for that.

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  41. The UN is "what it is."

    If we give them "Too Much" attention, or "Credence," that's OUR Fault.

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  42. We work the UN as much as anybody. And it has proved useful, if not consistently so.

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  43. A "riceburner" is, usually, built in the U.S., and can have as high as 75%+ "American" parts, whereas, a pickemup truck from the Big 3 might be built in Mexico, and could have as little as 35, or 40% American parts.

    Hard to tell, sometimes, the "Book" by its "Cover."

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  44. The First Flex Fuel Car

    Even in 1900 Henry Ford knew giving all our money to the Oil Companis, and the Arabs was a fool's game.

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  45. rufus said...

    As Government Programs go, this is a Good One...

    ...Meantime, it creates "action," and excitement in the marketplace (never a bad thing if you're teetering on the edge of perpetual recession.

    rufus said...

    Weekly Leading Economic Indicators say we're, definitely, coming out of recession
    ...

    Is it fair to ask which rufus to believe?

    Blood in the water creates action in a pool of sharks. The questions are whose blood is it, and who's about to be dipped? If it's my blood being used for chum, and family or friends are about to be dipped for the benefit of an artificial stimulus to car sales, you can keep the damned program.

    Kinda like a Giant "Lottery." Except, this time it's not limited to a bunch of fat-assed bankers, and lawyers. I'm a fan.

    Really? I guess you may be correct there, Rufus. It includes a crowd of fat-assed amateurs trying to run the economy, the ubiquitous greenies wetting their pants over a token offering to their imagined bugaboo of the moment, and dealers whose short term profits are subsidized by the rest of us. BTW, you ever checked the odds on the "Lottery"?

    -----

    Said ABC News Consumer Correspondent Elisabeth Leamy, "From a strictly consumer standpoint, the Cash for Clunkers program is not a great deal. Yes, if you are bent on buying brand new, you will save money. But the savings are nothing compared with how well you can do by buying a used car."

    It's another scam, favoring a small circle of prospective new car purchasers at others' expense. California tried the same bullshit a few years ago, and ran out of money before the program faded. You're safe with the federals trying their hand at it, because all they need do is rev up the printing presses. Is this a perpetual recyling program, or just a high profile flash in the pan that puts off the eventual day of reckoning for the industry?

    I won't even bother with your ...over 20 years that would be, maybe between $20,000.00 at today's oil prices, and who knows how much at future prices... infatuation. What's the economic life of a new car today? What drivel.

    -----

    Go read Atlas Shrugged.

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  46. Ah, LT, the answer ain't in "Atlas Shrugged." And, it's not in "Das Kapital." It's in "Common Sense." (Or, Musings by Rufus at the Elephant Bar.)

    You're taking it much too serious.

    As for "Recession," Lakshman's index is predicting our emergence from negative GDP growth. I'm sure it's probably right.

    The thing is, "I'm predicting we go back IN recession within a year, or so."

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  47. 142. buddy larsen:

    well, if there was a ‘right’ place for ‘race’ to be, i’d say it’s in the consciences of individuals, and i do truly believe –as a born Alabamian, raised Louisianian, and Texan all adult life, that ONLY in that place peace will be found.

    Every last damned thing the government has done –since the last thing that needed doing, which in my mind was Ike federalizing the dissolution of Jim Crow –has made bigger backlashes and backlashes of backlashes –than the problem stood to be, left alone in the consciences of individuals.

    And there’s evidence for this –everything from social stats (esp the inner cities) to hollywood flix from the 50s. If results are what counts, once again America, in letting the self-appointed spokesmen of a conjured ‘collective’ over-ride the wisdom of the individual, has messed up (has created vested interests in keeping the issue alive) and needs to go back to fundamentals in order to go forward to righteousness.

    And we need to reclaim the language, which has been “coded” by those vested interests so that it’s really gotten hard to be clear.

    For example, there’s no reason for me to have considered euphemisms for ‘fundamentals’ and ‘righteousness’ (which i did do) other than that both words can & do cast that KKK shadow. Stupid and wrong. Once you lose the language you lose.

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  48. 118. Pascal:

    TP hung near the wall is less likely to come unwound, a trait that is desirable with heavier plied sheets. Also, sheets are easier to tear off at the perforations using one hand because of angle and leverage.

    TP hung away from the wall is more apt to flow freely, typical of those who want lots of paper fast.

    Since the spindle seats and housing width varies from site to site, roll movement can vary from nearly immovable to almost frictionless.

    Thus it would seem that having preconceived notions over which way is best to hang the TP without thinking about the conditions involved is not only foolish when one wants TP, it may obstruct good human relations — as Sara’s first mention of TP relates.

    Foolish prejudice, complicated by OCD or not, often leads to bad human relations.

    There, I have I brought another off-topic back on-topic.

    119. buddy larsen:

    toilet paper is like the Star Trek fleet –both circle Uranus looking for kling ons

    ***
    OCD is kinda fascinating –it dramatizes the great duality (everything in nature must be two, else there can be no movement to or from, and movement makes alive) –showing the ’self’ half asserting control over the ‘my’ half of the thing called ‘my self’ or ‘myself’. i’m no doc, but it would seem to come from some need to assert control, which would come from fear, which origin is probably some sort of post-traumatic stress reaction from deep childhood. maybe even the first experience with a world not as safe as womb-promised.

    120. Annoy Mouse:

    and another thing about hanging TP close to the wall is that you cannot do that little folded end thingy like they do at fancy hotels like the Hilton and Motel 6. Really, do you think that the ancestors of Paris Hilton don’t know a little sumthin’ about class? I’m mo’tafied.

    121. oMan:

    Pascal (118): thanks for rescuing the thread from the distraction of more analysis of America’s Tragic Hero, Henry Louis “Your Momma Outside” Gates. (smiley emoticon here).

    122. PA Cat:

    118 Pascal

    It isn’t just human preferences at work (or play) here– hanging the TP close to the wall makes it less attractive to cats looking for a neat new way to redecorate the bathroom.

    Jul 25, 2009 - 9:42 am

    123. buddy larsen:

    close to the wall also offers it some blast-wave protection –less likely the free end will unspool in an over-pressure

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  50. "Doug, on the other hand, shoots for apoplectic consistency, the only downside of which is its long term wear and tear."
    ---
    Doesn't self-sacrifice garner any bonus points in this Bar?

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  51. That thread has attracted an interesting bunch of comments.
    ---
    129. NahnCee:


    Working at a university for 12 years, I have a gut revulsion of students who accumulate parking tickets. Inevitably it signals that they think they are better than everyone else, that the rules don’t apply to them, and that their time is much more valuable than anyone else’se time so that they have a god-given (or in this case, Allah-given) right to always drive where they have to go at the last minute, and then to park where-ever is most convenient. This matches up with my impression of Mr. Obama. I wonder if any of the tickets were for parking in handicapped spaces.

    (P.S. I also became leery of Law School students because so many of them admitted they were in it for the power. And they’d sue *any*body just for the practice.)

    ///

    I had an experience in the Los Angeles sunshine yesterday that I’m still mulling over. Riding down a narrow escalator at lunchtime, I felt a tap on my shoulder and a fairly well-dressed black woman asked me to step aside so she could get ahead of me. I looked down at the moving staircase, and at the width of the escalator and answered, “I don’t think so.” There was a wide swath of physical steps not more than 5 feet to our left she could have taken if she was in a hurry, but she choose to try to guilt-trip her way to the front of the line in an inconvenient and potentially dangerous place.

    She immediately went into full victim mode, loudly proclaiming that she would step all the way back up and away from me so that nothing of her touched my presence. In the process of doing that, she bumped into the people *behind* her on the escalator, thereby bothering them, too. During all of which she’s making loud exclamations about avoiding touching people who don’t want her around. Full Victim Mode.

    I’ve been telling myself that she was just a stupid human being being selfish, but I can’t help thinking that if you go through life cutting to the head of the line when you don’t deserve it because of Affirmative Action, and then you have a President who assures you that you *deserve* to go to the front of the line … is this the result?

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  52. Comment deleted

    This post has been removed by the author
    ...

    ...discretion being the better part of valor. Cutting and pasting sure to prolong the conflict, an outcome that can only end badly.

    Doug.

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  53. This comment has been removed by the author.

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  54. Not willing to defend your fear of annd prejudice against cat lovers, eh, Linear?

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  55. As I said, Doug. It can only end badly.

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  56. Enjoy the rest of your weekend, rufus.

    How's the still coming along. That's a worthy project.

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  57. Straight Talk:

    "The point of the proposal, however, was never to generate savings over the next decade. ... Instead, the goal is to provide a mechanism for improving quality of care for beneficiaries and reducing costs over the long term," Orszag wrote. "In other words, in the terminology of our belt-and-suspenders approach to a fiscally responsible health reform, the IMAC is a game changer not a scoreable offset."

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  58. ""This letter underscores the enormous challenges that Democrats face trying to pay for their massive and costly government takeover of health care. In their rush to pass a bill, Democrats continue to ignore the stark economic reality facing our nation," said Boehner spokeswoman Antonia Ferrier. "Let's scrap the current proposal and come together in a meaningful way to reform health care in America by reducing cost, expanding access and at a price tag we can afford."
    ---
    Sounds like Boehner's version of the same thing:
    Expand access, reduce costs, at a price to be determined.
    ---

    Read more: http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0709/25415.html#ixzz0MJzCx2X3
    "

    ReplyDelete
  59. The Leviathan will lumber on, doug.

    Something or another will be passed.

    Then 'reformed' with each passing year or so.

    Sure as shootin'

    Pelosi promises to pass a Bill.
    Which will be picked apart.
    Even by Obama.

    The worse parts then dumped in the Senate "compromise". The Repubs and the Blue Dogs getting their fair share of "input".

    The Final Version, passing, in September or October.
    Obama being able to then speak to the details.

    The Final Version, still not "his" but the Congress's.

    The Teddy Kennedy All American Health Care Compromise.

    ReplyDelete
  60. Standing on the tracks and shouting
    "NO!"
    will get you run over by the DC Express

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  61. Which was why he was not able to speak to the details of the House mark up, it is not "his" Bill being debated.

    Obama has made no proposal, has offered no funding sources nor does he have to.

    Our Representatives write the Laws, not our Presidents. Mr Obama backing away from the negatives of the "Imperial Presidency", while retaining the powers of it.

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  62. For some, hope springs eternal:

    9. Marcus Aurelius:


    The Democrats are reaching the apex of their power cycle and the Republicans are at the nadir of theirs.

    I’ve seen a number of conservative activists go through the same let down. People seem to have this notion that their president can work miracles. Many conservative leaning folk complain to me that President Bush did not do enough to curb abortion on demand. I would try to patiently explain to them there is only so much he could do, especially without an overwhelming majority in the legislature.

    The price the Democrats paid to get their majority in the house and senate is being extracted. A lot of those representatives and senators are not flaming lefties. What they really are I don’t know, but they were very reluctant to support Captain Trade and are now very reluctant to support this current monstrosity.

    One issue near & dear to the hearts of the left is conspicuously absent and that is gun control. Oh, I know, there is a bill out there but it is not attracting any co-sponsors and I find it amazing national full faith and credit on concealed carry permits nearly passed (however, some of those voting for it may have received the blessing of DNC to vote that way knowing it did not have the required votes to get past filibuster).

    Presient Obama was voted into office due to his charisma and Republican fatigue, we’ll see how rapidly him and his congressional allies bring on Democrat fatigue.

    ReplyDelete
  63. "Obama has made no proposal, has offered no funding sources nor does he have to.

    Our Representatives write the Laws, not our Presidents. Mr Obama backing away from the negatives of the "Imperial Presidency", while retaining the powers of it.
    "
    ---
    He had Daschle as his guide.
    (since you didn't have his ear!)

    ReplyDelete
  64. You are correct, I do not have his ears.

    There were lessons learned, from the Campaign for ClintonCare.

    To bad GW Bush, Tom DeLay and Trent Lott were not the ones that learned them.

    ReplyDelete
  65. There will be signifgant Democrat fatigue, by 2016.

    One wonders who Obama will choose to replace Biden, in 2012?
    To be the heir apparent.

    But by 2012, most of the damage will have been done. The reforms enacted, even if limited in scale and scope. All to be expanded with time, as is the historical precedent for all of the 'progressive' reforms in US history, but Prohibition. Which was a reactionary moral and not a real progressive political reform, in that regard.

    But especially true of the progressive reforms the Republicans instituted in 1913 era, same will be true of the Democratic changes made in our era, today.

    The reforms will survive, with the Republic, becoming intergral to its institutions.
    Like the Federal Reserve and Social Security

    ReplyDelete
  66. "But especially true of the progressive reforms the Republicans instituted in 1913 era, same will be true of the Democratic changes made in our era, today."
    ---
    Came across someone writing about what a Big Govt Guy TR was, but didn't get around to reading it yet.

    ...at least Big John was honest about who his hero is.

    ReplyDelete
  67. Teddy and Taft, doug.

    It was the mordern apex of the Freemason movement.

    Though their members have continued on in the White House, publicly, through Mr Ford's tenure.
    Mr Ford being another Freemason that graduated from Yale University.

    ReplyDelete
  68. Doesn't self-sacrifice garner any bonus points in this Bar?

    Sat Jul 25, 07:52:00 PM EDT

    I'll put you in for an award.

    Which one would you like?

    (One of these nights I'll tell you about the award my husband got at his going away in Baghdad. And the speech he gave. It's funny. But it's funnier when you're serfectly pober.)

    ReplyDelete
  69. "I think I now understand what is really important and what is just window dressing..."

    Amen to that.

    ReplyDelete
  70. That is exactly what Charitable Trusts are for, doug.

    Any reasonable tax acountant/attorney will set it up for you.

    The entire tax code if riddled with exceptions and exemptions.
    As if you didn't know.

    ReplyDelete
  71. Mr Sapin has his, Toward Tradition, it is often used to blind funnel funds from donor to recipient, without an obvious paper trail.

    Charitable Trusts were the backbone of the New Jersey money laundering operations that the Federals just broke up.

    Lots of scoundrals utiize Charitable Trusts.

    ReplyDelete
  72. The Palistinians were using them, here in the US, to fund operations in Gaza and the West Bank.

    Prosecutions in Florida, if I recall. At least one guy was aquitted if memory serves.

    ReplyDelete
  73. All the wise guys have charitable trusts, doug.

    Those with real wealth do not need lots of income, which is taxed.

    They do not have much stuff, they have charitable trusts that own, lease or borrow lots of stuff.

    Which they get to use, as if their own.

    ReplyDelete
  74. What do you expect to come of that shared beer @ the Big House with Crowley and Gates, 'Rat?

    ReplyDelete
  75. I expect the Professor would be the model of civility, if the meeting ever really happens.
    He'll be extremely well briefed, before hand, I'm sure.

    I doubt that "Extreme Pressure" would need to be exerted upon the Professor, by his brother, the President.

    ReplyDelete
  76. I do believe that Professor Gates knows exactley whom he is messing with, if he messes with the President.

    ReplyDelete
  77. We know that Officer Crowley is the model of civility, already.

    ReplyDelete
  78. My concern is that the Crowley tapes will never see the light of day.
    Sure would bring a lot of truth to power, to quote your hero, JFK.

    ReplyDelete
  79. At least we can be thankful we don't live in Cambridge!

    What a stinking pit.

    ReplyDelete
  80. Ain't my hero, amigo.

    Just another Skull & Boner.

    Left that scene long ago and far away. But that did not change the scene, my leaving.

    No indeed, not in the least.

    ReplyDelete
  81. You think we'll ever hear the tapes?

    ReplyDelete
  82. There is no ripple on the water, if the duck flys by the pond.

    ReplyDelete
  83. No, I do not.

    There will not be any legal proceedings that require it.

    ReplyDelete
  84. Somewhere in the MSM, it was written they are public record.

    Wishful fantasy, no doubt.

    ReplyDelete
  85. The Police will stand pat, the Professor will be instructed that it is in his interest to back down, legally.

    Obama will recommend a publisher.

    ReplyDelete
  86. It will all disappear, in a couple of news cycles.

    The police will not push it, the Professor will be instructed.

    ReplyDelete
  87. I hate it when you're right.

    ReplyDelete
  88. What about Freedom of Information?
    :-)

    ReplyDelete
  89. I would enjoy seeing a tape of Nahncee on that escalator, tho!

    ReplyDelete
  90. Cambridge, doug, the cradle of PBS Intellectualism

    ReplyDelete
  91. Now I've forgotten who you were arguing with about PBS.

    ReplyDelete
  92. WGBH is a non-commercial television and radio broadcast service located in Boston, Massachusetts. WGBH is a member station of the Public Broadcasting Service, and has produced many programs for the network, including nearly a third of PBS's national primetime programming.
    ...
    WGBH-TV Channel 2 went on the air on May 2, 1955, at 5:20 p.m. with studios located at 84 Massachusetts Avenue, Cambridge
    .

    ReplyDelete
  93. All will be rendered powerless by the unlimited potential of the blogosphere.

    ReplyDelete
  94. That, and pipedreams, that is.

    ReplyDelete
  95. Bill Moyers, Professor Campbell, 1988, The Power of Myth.

    The Equivalency of Myths

    The Gods are Crazy

    ReplyDelete
  96. With whom?

    I don't know, no one that has any impact or importance, here, today.

    The market has no memory.

    ReplyDelete
  97. But the subjects remain.

    Even when the players change, the play continues.

    Until the theater closes.

    ReplyDelete
  98. This comment has been removed by the author.

    ReplyDelete
  99. This comment has been removed by the author.

    ReplyDelete
  100. Avatars come, avatars go

    Just another set of sock puppets

    Were Mark Twain and Samuel Clemens really the same fellow?

    Or was Mark Twain just another character that Mr Clemens created?

    ReplyDelete
  101. Blogger Doug said...

    "I would enjoy seeing a tape of Nahncee on that escalator, tho!"


    She sounds like the twerps who sit in the left lane on highway thinkin' "I'm going the speed limit".

    ReplyDelete
  102. Speaking of Markets, what's up with this?

    S&P Indices Equity Indices - S&P 500 - Month End Data

    P/E Ratio* 134.01

    *Based on As Reported Earnings.

    ReplyDelete
  103. That's a human right in Hawaii, Ash.

    Although natives consider it a responsibility when there's another car to block the right lane.

    ReplyDelete
  104. And here, on the INet, where everyone is really a dog ...

    Where the offering that was found was an anonymous foreigner, off shore, that had been educated in the US. Thought he knew something, he and his fellow intellectual Ivy Leaguers.

    Game theory as a religion.

    But little time spent with boots on the ground, with the US military, for most of his commentators.

    Those that claimed it, often lied.

    No depth of character

    They tried to make a business out of it, guess they're still trying, or not. There still is no depth of character, but maybe for Buddy.

    ReplyDelete
  105. ...but what about that 134 PE?

    ReplyDelete
  106. Sara's husband only had 4 deployments in 'Nam.

    ReplyDelete
  107. Evenin all, just got back from the casino. Played a Satellite for the poker tournament. Amazing. Won NO hands; Folded NO winners.

    Got the 3 of Clubs about twenty-eleven times. I'm now an expert in the proper play of the 3 of clubs. Or, maybe not. Since I didn't win, place, or show.

    Now, I remember why I don't play much poker any more.

    Moving slow on the still, LT. Still studying and buying a few items. Looking for a dairy can. Jeez, we had a bunch of them. I think we probably "gave them away."

    Anyway, I'm going to play some music, now.

    ReplyDelete
  108. 134 PE? I guess they're figuring they'll make a few profits "This" quarter.

    Hate the market, right now. I'm out. Might buy some Gold. Mattress sounds better, though. At least in the short/medium term.

    ReplyDelete
  109. Hank Williams and Anita Carter

    Anita steals the show. Bad timing, the girl could have been big.

    ReplyDelete
  110. Willie Dixon, Memphis Slim, and T-Bone Walker morph the blues into jazz.

    Is it live? Or, is it Memorex. And they end up doing the twist?

    ReplyDelete
  111. Comin to Maui:
    ---
    Sunday, August 23
    ROCKIN’50’s featuring The Platters, The Drifters & The Coasters
    Castle Theater 7:30pm

    It’s time to celebrate rock and roll with the ROCKIN’ 50’s . The hits that defined rock and roll are now coming to Maui with performances by

    The Coasters bringing you back with “Yakety Yak,” “Charlie Brown,” “Little Egypt,” “Poison Ivy,” “Along Comes Jones,” “Young Blood,” and “Searchin’,”

    The Drifters with their top charting hits like “There Goes My Baby,” “Save The Last Dance For Me,” “On Broadway,” “This Magic Moment,” “Up On The Roof,” and “Under The Boardwalk.,” and

    The Platters singing songs like “Only You,” “Harbor Lights,” “The Great Pretender,” “My Prayer,” and “Smoke Gets In Your Eyes.”

    The Coasters, The Drifters, and The Platters! Three outstanding groups, in one unforgettable night of rock and roll!

    ReplyDelete
  112. So, who do YOU think invented folk music? Is it Arlo Guthrie? Woody Guthrie? Bob Dylan?

    Mississippi John Hurt - Make me a pallet on your floor.

    Close your eyes and tell me who You hear.

    ReplyDelete
  113. Here ya go Rufus,

    Jerry Jeff Walker Up Against The Wall Redneck Mother

    Well...he's thirty-four and drinkin' in some honky-tonk...
    Kickin' hippies' asses an' raisin' hell!!!!

    Takes me back, it does.

    ReplyDelete
  114. My head's 'sploding. Good night, all.

    I hate it when I get a hangover "before" I go to bed.

    ReplyDelete
  115. Take It Easy

    and, if you can get it easy, take it twice...

    ReplyDelete
  116. Sweet dreams, rufus...

    Think I'll crack a bottle of Bushmills out here.

    ReplyDelete
  117. You never know what'll show up in a late night play list at the bar...


    Boresighting a Rifle Scope the Old Fashion Way

    Larry Potterfield, CEO and Founder of MidwayUSA, shows how to bore sight a scope on a bolt action rifle without the use of a boresighter or other expensive tools.

    ReplyDelete
  118. Sorry if you expected an explosion...or some other loud entertainment.

    ReplyDelete
  119. Here's a little repeat of Corby Yates from Viktor's send off the other night...

    Testify

    ReplyDelete
  120. Whit's got a new post up. Time to move the picnic over there.

    Adios amigos y amigas...

    ReplyDelete
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    ReplyDelete