The power and wisdom of the Palin choice for vice-president is that hopefully, there are still enough Americans that can see with their own eyes what the genuine article looks like.
The facade created by the Democrats is to cover there decisions to go on the offense in radically changing America. It is a radical revolution conducted with an evolutionary strategy. So far it has worked. The Left has captured the American education system and owns the federalization of social services. No conventional Republican has been able to roll back a single progressive or leftist program. The progressives sense danger in Palin.
Maybe I am reading too much into her, but based on the rising vitriol against her there is a real fear factor about her ability to swing this election. The black callers on c-span, who now dominate the call-ins, are almost hysterical seeing this white woman as taking away their savior.
Could you please post a transcript in English?
ReplyDeleteI wonder if Dennis Miller has a chance against these hilarious jokers?
ReplyDeleteBiden stirs up the Israelis:
ReplyDeleteBiden quoted as saying that Israel will have to reconcile itself to a nuclear Iran
By Haaretz Service
Tags: Biden, Obama, Jews
Democratic vice-presidential candidate Joe Biden was quoted Monday as telling senior Israeli officials behind closed doors that the Jewish state will have to reconcile itself to a nuclear Iran.
In the unsourced report, Army Radio also quoted Biden as saying that he opposed "opening a additional military and diplomatic front."
Biden, chairman of the powerful Senate Foreign Relations Committee, has long been considered strongly pro-Israel. His nomination as Barack Obama's running mate had been expected to shore up the Democrats' strength with U.S. Jewish voters.
Army Radio said Israeli officials expressed "amazement" over the remarks attributed to him.
"Israel will have to reconcile itself with the nuclearization of Iran," Army Radio quoted Biden as telling the unnamed officials.
"It's doubtful if the economic sanctions will be effective, and I am against opening an additional military and diplomatic front."
Last year, in a widely quoted interview with year the Jewish American Shalom TV, Biden said, "I am a Zionist. You don't have to be a Jew to be a Zionist," adding that "Israel is the single greatest strength that America has in the Middle East," and that its presence as a strategic ally meant that America need station far fewer troops and warships in the region.
Is C-Span available on the internet?
ReplyDeleteStorm-Rider said,
ReplyDelete"International anti-Americanism is rooted in one of the collectivist ideals for humanity rather than good old American individualism; and
American individualism is rooted in the Declaration of Independence and Bill of Rights which contain ideas which are anathema to both elite collectivist Marxist/Socialism and elite collectivist Islamo-Fascism."
---
Palin = good old American individualism.
In Spades!
Now, they've got to find Palin a Great Speechwriter. Pronto. Yesterday.
ReplyDeleteG.O.P. Rallies in Support of McCain, Poll Shows -
ReplyDelete"The sharp contrast between the Republican and Democratic delegates’ stands on the issues offers something of a refutation of the popular lament among some Americans that there is no difference between the two major parties.
For example, just 7 percent of the Republican delegates would choose expanded health care coverage over lower taxes, compared with 94 percent of Democratic delegates who would. The two parties’ views on the war in Iraq, abortion rights and same-sex marriage are similarly at odds.
"
---
As tho what the delegates thinks means Jack Squat to what the part does in office.
As tho what the delegates think means Jack Squat to what the party does when in office.
ReplyDeleteTroops that train in Ak are the most disciplined since you either do it right or freeze.
ReplyDeleteAmazing to see the lifestyles of those folks compared to the couch potatoes and worse in the lower 48.
"The movie ends with the former beauty queen shaking out her pinned-up hair, taking off her glasses, slipping on ruby red peep-toe platform heels that reveal a pink French-style pedicure, and facing down Vladimir Putin in an island in the Bering Strait. Putting away her breast pump, she points her rifle and informs him frostily that she has some expertise in Russia because it’s close to Alaska. “Back off, Commie dude,” she says. “I’m a much better shot than Cheney.”
ReplyDeleteThen she takes off in her seaplane and lands on the White House lawn, near the new ice fishing hole and hockey rink. The “First Dude,” as she calls the hunky Eskimo in the East Wing, waits on his snowmobile with the kids — Track (named after high school track meets), Bristol (after Bristol Bay where they did commercial fishing), Willow (after a community in Alaska), Piper (just a cool name) and Trig (Norse for “strength.”)
“The P.T.A. is great preparation for dealing with the K.G.B.,” President Palin murmurs to Todd, as they kiss in the final scene while she changes Trig’s diaper. “Now that Georgia’s safe, how ’bout I cook you up some caribou hot dogs and moose stew for dinner, babe?”
- Dowd
Op-Art - Republican Convention Schedule - Interactive Graphic - NYTimes.com
ReplyDelete"You think I'm old, meet mom!"
ReplyDeleteWhere the Hell IS everybody???
ReplyDeletefred said...
ReplyDeleteDoug,
I clicked on that link to the Naomi Klein presentation. Funny how that Canadian Trotskyist thinks she can meddle in our political decision making. Yep, she’s not an American citizen - she’s a Canadian, along with her producer husband.
I really resent foreigners meddling in our elections and political debates. But it should indicate the INTERNATIONAL character of the socialist movement and how all these networks and cells come together to exert influence in our political debates and decisions.
Tony said...
ReplyDeleteThanks Buddy, thanks L3, for your kind comments.
I’m still forcing my way through Feith’s “War and Decision” - it’s tough going because it’s like reading an extremely long legal brief. And it gives me waking nightmares thinking what it would be like to work under Rummy!
Colin Powell is a back-stabbing bastard. When Armitage blabbed about Plame to Bob Novak, kicking off the whole “Bush outs CIA spy!” will-sapping drama, he went to his boss Gen. Powell and told him what happened. The two of them sat on this crucial piece of info that would have demolished the entire Plame propaganda attack on the Administration, and let the nation suffer through two years of pointless questioning and vicious Bush hatred from the Dems. Y’know, when they got a majority in Congress in 2006, during war time, they used their position to do between 100-200 hearings on the Plame lies. And now the Convetional Wisdom is that Bush outed a spy. Of course, that’s as “true” as the “Bush Lied” bullshit, and equally as true as Obama’s latest recitation that the government “sat on its hands” during Katrina (while performing 32,000 helicopter and boat rescues of idiotic Democrat voters in New Orleans who refused the federal call for evacuation. I notice they are getting their lazy asses on the buses this time.
Btw, if Obama is the new Lincoln, as Al Gore declared a couple of days ago, you think he will consider the Democrats’ demands for surrender during war time as treasonous, as old Abe did?
---
I said...
Tony,
And the Conventional Wisdom is that Powell is a great Patriot.
Which I never bought.
Obama minus the Marxism and Black Liberation Theology?
---
Why are you so wrong, Trish?
Professional Courtesy?
Klein is rather ignorant. The Green Agenda is not just about the Environment, and neither is the Green Agenda exclusive to Leftist politics. The Right quite rightly understands that Renewable Energy is more than just about Green Energy, it’s about Energy Independence, Economic Security, and Geopolitical Flexibility that is not available when Jihadi Oil is king. Naomi complains about “Reichwing Neocons” like James Woolsey being part of McCain’s team, but here is what James Woolsey has to say on the subject.
ReplyDeleteJames Woolsey on Energy Policy
.
CNNMoney: Oil falling as Gustav fears ease
ReplyDeleteCrude spikes then falls as hurricane bears down on region that is home to 25% of U.S. crude production and 56% of imports.
That damned refinery liability again!
Drill, drill, drill!
Build, build, build!
I've made my contribution to McCain/Palin today.
ReplyDeleteGo Here to help.
These black Democratic callers never cease to astound me. I have heard several of them ridiculing Sarah Palin for being on the PTA.
ReplyDeleteThere are some schools in Philadelphia,99% black, with over a thousand students that get less than 50 parents at a PTA meeting.
These schools graduate less than half and have a startling crime rate. In the Black American community, they believe that to require someone to start at the bottom is a bad thing. Affirmative action and government hand outs has so bred that into their thinking.
They are startled at the concept of someone actually starting at the bottom and making it to the top.
The Democratic leadership talking points are saying that Obama has foreign experience because of his scripted trip of late.
They have a problem with Palin's resume but none with Obama's. This is going to get very ugly, very soon.
McCain's strength was his experience and Obama's weakness the lack therof. By choosing Palin McCain has negated that strength. Strategic thought on par with Dubya's!
ReplyDeleteBS, Ash. If Palin wasnt a good choice, Kerry (Lurch) wouldn't be hysterical.
ReplyDeleteAt the end of the day, she has more integrity than Obama on his best day. Remove the teleprompter and he's a bumbling hack from Cook County. McCain/Palin 08!
The difference being, Ash, that our team has the old guy in first place, with Palin the understudy, while your team has the neophyte in first place, with the old guy in the second spot.
ReplyDeleteI maintain, as I did yesterday, that Palin is solid, based on how she has lived her life.
Granted, she hasn't gone to Foreign Service School, but, neither has Obama.
Sometimes I get the feeling I can read your mind Ash, and I think deep down in there is a grudging acceptance that Palin just might be a fine human being.
By John Kerry's criteria, I'm qualified to be President, as I took one trip to Europe too, back in the sixties, just like the Messiah, only earlier, and I didn't give meaningless speeches.
ReplyDeleteSpent most of the time watching Spaniards kill bulls.
Which was an amazing spectacle, that I hope they don't ever give up, no matter what the People For The Ethical Treatment Of Animals say.
Elijah said it best--
ReplyDeletesome farmers believe the soil has a little something to do with the outcome of the crop
Palin is good soil.
Palin has more executive experience than Obama and Biden combined Ash.
ReplyDelete---
Answer that.
Ash, try and restrain your glee and allow me to explain a couple of things:
ReplyDelete1. Palin is up for number two spot. She has more executive experience than the Democrat number one.
2. Palin is a self made woman. Obama is a product of the Chicago political machine. He is a convenient stalking horse for the far left and social progressives.
3. Palin is a natural optimistic doer, not a seething cauldron of anger as are the Obama's.
4. The little yorkie Terrier Tom Dashell claims that one of Obama's assets is that he has been running for president and his foreign experience was taking a political trip.
5. The Democrats and their flacks in the media are criticizing McCain for meeting Palin on two occasions and making a judgment on her character. Obama has a life long rogue's gallery of anti-American and far left felons as part of his circle and has just lately got around to making some decisions as to their character. No coincidence that he is running for President.
I have some news for you. If enough Americans open their eyes, your guy is going down.
some farmers believe the soil has a little something to do with the outcome of the crop
ReplyDelete==
And BS fertilizers? :)
Get your mind out of the gutter, er furrow, al-Bob!
ReplyDeleteNow the left wing bloggers are reduced to saying Palin's down syndrone baby is really her grand daughter based on a "stomach bump" they saw in a pic of her 16 year old daughter.
ReplyDeleteThey will stop at nothing.
2. Palin is a self made woman
ReplyDeleteThat is exactly right. She didn't get no help from anybody. Her folks were teachers, from what I hear. You don't get rich doing that. She didn't have any rich corrupt backers.
She went to school here in Idaho, went home to Alaska, became a family woman, and got into politics.
She makes me proud.
I know she will make a mistake or three, but, she's got the spunk, and the down home quality I love.
Some of these American women are damned great.
My wife being in that category.
McCain/Palin in 08
This comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteI think Obama will take it with a landslide
ReplyDeleteObama may win, but not by a landslide.
There's 44 or 45 percent of us who wouldn't vote for Obama if our last dying breath depended on it.
It's gonna be a close election.
Palin may indeed be a fine woman. There is a significant downside to the possibility that she isn't, or her husband isn't, or...
ReplyDelete...then again, she may be all that you hope she is but that still does not mitigate the fact that her lack of experience doesn't take the wind out of McCain's criticism of Obama's lack of experience. Smell the hypocrisy?
Before Palin, whenever something like the dustup in Georgia happens, McCain can act the elder very experienced no nonsense leader who criticizes Obama for being a neophyte. This appeared to be such a problem for the Dems that they countered with Biden. McCain's response... Palin. If the oldest first term president should meet some physical problem we got Palin. You call that good political strategy? EXPERIENCE he intones....
I can see how the repub base was wobbly and they might just stay home (as DR warned more then once) but, for the most part, they had nowhere to go. Sure Palin helps with this demographic segment and, maybe, with some of those diehard Hillary supporters but her gun-toting anti-abortion mantra won't sit well with that demographic (primarily the women portion I'm referring to - the blue collars, yeah).
In summary, she'll help with the base that had nowhere else to go and maybe add a few hildebeasts to the mix. The downsides are her lack of experience and prominence on the public stage with a whole lot of unkowns possibly lurking in the darkness. It'll be interesting to learn more about the snowmobile ridin' oil worker first dude. Maybe he is squeaky clean to. Bagged himself a runner up beauty queen (late night tv gonna luv this stuff).
I think Obama will take it with a landslide and it isn't because I'm an Obama supporter just my take on the political landscape. I dislike Obama for his stance on Afghanistan and free trade. McCain's worse on war stuff but better on free trade but that is my political opinion and not my guess on who the winner will be and their strategic and tactical blunders. Palin was a strategic error. Time will tell.
I was answering Ash, but, his post dun disappeared.
ReplyDeletehe, and, reappeared.
ReplyDeleteBiden was drunk at his last campaign event.
ReplyDeleteI think.
You can watch the video and make up your own mind.
That's no way to build confidence in the voters.
It gets intrestiner, and intrestiner:
ReplyDeleteBristol Palin is Pregnant.
Going to Marry the Father.
Film at 11:00
Ash, Is Biden Drunk, Or Not? You Decide.
ReplyDeleteYou want this guy with the nuclear football?
Bristol Palin is Pregnant.
ReplyDeleteGoing to Marry the Father.
Kids!
She's probably doing the right thing.
He looks drunker than a skunk to me Ash.
ReplyDeleteWhat do you think?
He wasn't going to be driving, was he?
ReplyDeleteSomebody please go to youtube and get the clip of Sean Combs(diddy)ranting to McCain about picking Palin as his running mate and post it(I dont know how).
ReplyDeleteI think it is titled "there are no black people in Alaska."
You will laugh your asses off!
Rat, the scary thing is, Biden might have been sober--which leaves us, exactly, where?
ReplyDeletethe Fix @ wapo
ReplyDeleteAssessing the Political Impact of Bristol Palin's Pregnancy
Assessing the Political Impact of Bristol Palin's Pregnancy
ST. PAUL -- Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin announced moments ago that her 17-year-old daughter, Bristol, is five months pregnant and is planning to keep the baby and marry the father.
"We have been blessed with five wonderful children who we love with all our heart and mean everything to us," said Sarah and Todd Palin in a statement. "Our beautiful daughter Bristol came to us with news that as parents we knew would make her grow up faster than we had ever planned. We're proud of Bristol's decision to have her baby and even prouder to become grandparents. As Bristol faces the responsibilities of adulthood, she knows she has our unconditional love and support."
The news comes just 72 hours after Palin was introduced by John McCain as his vice presidential nominee. In the time between the pick and Palin's statement today, rumors had grown louder and louder that Palin's youngest son, Trig, was actually her grandson and that it was Bristol who had given birth to the young boy.
According to Reuters, McCain campaign officials knew about Bristol's pregnancy during the vetting process and that the rumors surrounding baby Trig's birth made an announcement necessary.
Reuters' Steve Holland writes: "McCain officials said the news of the daughter's pregnancy was being released to rebut what one aide called 'mud-slinging and lies' circulating on liberal blog sites."
To paraphrase Ace @ Ace O Spades:
ReplyDeleteI feel like I've been put down on the set of The Days of our Lives.
Gag, I can't find it, but Here's a Raisin in the Sun
ReplyDeleteI'm out of it. I'd never heard of the guy until today.
If Mrs Palin's judgement is so good, why was Bristol not on birth control?
ReplyDeleteWas Mrs Palin so out of touch with Bristol that she did not know the sexual activity was taking place, or did she not care if her unmarried teenage daughter became pregnent?
Was she leaving it to "Gods' will" or what?
That is a real life judgement call, that if Mrs Palin's life experiences are what matter, really matters in assessing Mrs Palin's judgement.
I dunno bobal, maybe he is drunk. Hardly inspirational or trust enducing if he is. Hardly powerful evidence that video.
ReplyDeleteIt also seems Bristol is 5 months pregnant. A couple of days in and already we've got the teenage child of the VP pick preggers. I'm sure all that gun work by ma will help induce the shotgun marriage. I never expected the skeletons to shake out this quick but there ya go.
DR
ReplyDeleteyeah, I think Palin ought to go ahead and resign before she gets started because of her daughter.
I am sure none of Obama's contingency has never had a baby out of wedlock. I am sure all of them know who their daddy is, and I am sure none of them have been raised by their grand parents, and I am sure none of them have every asked for goverment assistance.
It's Alaska, Ash, Be fruitfull and multiply.
ReplyDeleteI'm a parent. Kids are hard to control.
The left, who advocate sex on Sunday, shouldn't be carping about this.
The left says, free love, free love all around, boys do boys and girls do girls, old men bugger children like in San Francisco, with their new law, so don't get on a high horse about it.
After all, Mary the mother of Jesus was an out of wedlock gal.
As a parent that has a daughter, I know, full well, what the worries are.
Oh my. Not good, not good, not good.
ReplyDeleteAre these the kind of excuses you want to be making (ALREADY) for you man's VP pick?
ReplyDeleteShe should probably just become a Democrat and nobody will say anything. Except being critized for not aborting it.
ReplyDeleteScreaming siren bad.
ReplyDeleteTsk, tsk.
ReplyDeleteAsh is an old comdemning sexless Aunt Bertha.
Stone the young girl to death!
Sorry, but I just dont see what the big deal is. Happens everyday. It's not Sarah Palin who is pregnant, it's her daughter....cheez
ReplyDeleteI put the Diddy you tube video in the post. You can watch it above.
ReplyDeleteThe Fox News correspondents in Louisiana are talking faster than the wind is blowing. Geez. Geraldo; someone get that hysteric away from there.
Would it be better for the Palin girl to have quietly gotten an abortion? We already know what Barack would have done.
Okay Trish, let's hear it.
ReplyDeleteno Bobal, I'm thinking about how attractive this issue is now for those Evangelicals that were luke warm to McCain. You know those folks that gushed at Palin's gun shooting, anti-abortion, pro family squeaky cleanness. Think they'll be motivated to get out the vote and vote themselves based on the 17 year olds pregnancy out of wedlock? Those who are more pragmatic, who wonder about McCain's vetting and decision making skills. What are they thinking? Not good thoughts is my guess.
ReplyDeleteLet's see what the compassionate lefties do with this bit of news.
ReplyDeleteGag, Ash, the great liberal, who would not criticize any of his fellow libs for such a thing, has to grab onto any floating piece of driftwood, less he go under.
ReplyDeleteAsh immediately turns into the tsk tsking old maid Aunt Bertha, sexless, with nothing to do but rumour.
"Well, I never!.."
blah blah blah
Ash,
ReplyDeleteApparently you don't know shit about religious people.
You can be so friggen obnoxious. How old are you anyway, 13?
thanks, Whit.
ReplyDelete"the face of America"
I imgine Sarah Palin is upset about it, as any parent might well be. So let's leave it with her, and the daughter, and, probably too, the pastor of their church.
ReplyDeleteOne thing I like about my old Lutheran Church is that in such matters we have a policy of supporting the young girl in need, which is what we should all be doing here.
Ambassador to
ReplyDeleteVenezuela--
Trish.
Mon Sep 01, 01:43:00 AM EDT
Not with the crew you'd have running things back at the mothership. No thanks.
Trish's better half might take it. He's *used* to working for the...challenged.
Note: William Brownfield, our own ambassador extraordinaire, was posted to Caracas until 07. Chavez threatened to kick him out at least a couple of times (settled on PNG-ing an attache instead); he liked to wear red t-shirts mocking the Venezuelan president. Good theater.
You can imagine they were happy to get him here in Bogota. And they'll be sad to see him go.
Re Palin: What Rat said.
(And you know how it pains me to agree w/ Rat.)
ReplyDeletegee what would religious people think of a mother of five children, the oldest only 19 and the youngest being disadvantaged. The eldest daughter is now pregnant and due in approx. 4 months. Would the religious urge this mother soon to be grandmother to run for a job that will keep her from her family? She can just hire help, right? Is that how folks think in the religious heartland of America?
ReplyDeleteIf Mrs Palin's judgement is so good, why was Bristol not on birth control?
ReplyDeleteWas Mrs Palin so out of touch with Bristol that she did not know the sexual activity was taking place, or did she not care if her unmarried teenage daughter became pregnent?
Was she leaving it to "Gods' will" or what?
That is a real life judgement call, that if Mrs Palin's life experiences are what matter, really matters in assessing Mrs Palin's judgement.
This man hasn't read Shakespeare.
Keep digging, Ash. You will eventually say something that has logic to it. The odds are in your favor.
ReplyDeleteYou're an asshole, Ash. You jump on something like this, that is a problem for all parents, and try with your smarmy way to crucify the mother and daughter.
ReplyDeleteGo to hell where you really belong.
This comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteI sincerely wish the very best for the very young Ms. Palin and her child, both.
ReplyDeleteJeeez, Rat. That's about the most bizarre thing I think I've ever heard a "Married" man say.
ReplyDeleteThis story has a shelf life of, exactly, 36 hrs, or until the first speech of the Convention, whichever comes first.
Would the religious urge this mother soon to be grandmother to run for a job that will keep her from her family?
ReplyDelete==
Ashley,
I really don't see what it is that you're having issues with. The daughter is 19 years old. And as far as I know, the family will live together, same as they did in the governors house. What's the problem?
Mean while, Hussein Obama is meeting with more of his contingency today, Union Officials.
ReplyDeleteShe's seventeen.
ReplyDeleteShe's seventeen.
ReplyDelete==
Ok. My bad. I saw Ashley's 19 for the oldest daughter, and assumed that it was she who was pregnant.
actually the pregnant daughter is 17 and Mom, if she wants to be VP, will have to spend a lot of time on the road, you know, campaigning. Once she gets the job she'll still have to do a lot of stuff. Should a mother tend her family at these critical junctures? Different folk have different answers and the evangelical religious ones are, I think, of the view that family is paramount and sacrifices must be made especially when the kids are so young (19, 17, 14, 7, 4 month) and in need (4 month old has Downs syndrome and the 17 year old is pregnant)
ReplyDeleteWe're going to break the glass ceiling, Ash.
ReplyDeleteAnd a father, as I know from my own experience, can stay home with the kids all well as the mother can.
I know, cause my wife and I did it. Farming is seasonal. You work your ass off, 16, even 18 hours a day, and then, when November, December, January, February, March come, you are the guy at home, when the wife is working. We did this, year after year.
Pappa can be the home guy, in our America.
Should a mother tend her family at these critical junctures?
ReplyDelete==
Any juncture is a critical juncture. The family will take care of itself. The 19 year old will look over the 17 year old. The 17 year old will look over the 14 year old. The 14 year old will look over the 7 year old, etc. That's what my family did. That's what all normal families do.
Right, Mat, but you left out pappa, who will be there to help as well. And, maybe, grandpa and grandma, and Aunt Agnes too.
ReplyDeleteWhen I grew up, I spent more time with Aunt Agnes, than with mom and dad, who were always working.
I had a wondeful childhood, I can tell you that.
Every person should have a great Swedish Aunt.
Common knowledge that Downs Syndrome is a genetic abnormality (Trisomy 21 - 3 No. 21 chromosomes) more common in women over forty. My first thought, which I kept to myself, is why birth control wasn't being practiced. Kids are expensive and tough to raise. Throw in the euphemism of "special needs" and one wonders why chances were taken.
ReplyDeleteSo now the air space will be sucked dry with pretentious efforts to justify violation of private family decisions on the grounds that judgment has been compromised.
Bob is right - read Shakespeare.
And I never agree with Bob on anything.
For the most part.
Seeing as the 19 year old is deploying to Iraq I don't see him doing much with the 17 year old and the new baby. She is getting married though and therefore daddy will be in the picture.
ReplyDeleteWe can yammer about this and various solutions but the key is what does this say about McCain, his vetting process, and the optics for the base to which she was such a draw? Heck Bobal's gonna be talking same sex marriage stuff soon if he keeps up and I don't think that'll play well with the base either.
Any juncture is a critical juncture.
ReplyDeleteJust wanted to repeat it. Ain't that the truth.
Like it ever ends. Been spending too much in the jacuzzi.
Right, Mat, but you left out pappa, who will be there to help as well.
ReplyDelete==
I prefer papa goes fishing. It's quieter in the house that way. :)
Been spending too much in the jacuzzi.
ReplyDeleteto think that the critical junctures ever end.
Which they don't.
My wife and I got married late. When we had our two kids, we were very aware of the risks of Downs and other problems.
ReplyDeleteOur doc said, if we do an amniocentesis, and it comes out bad, I'm not aborting the bady.
He was a good Catholic doctor.
We all agreed, we'll go for it, come what may. So we didn't do the amniocentesis.
It worked for us. And I have all compassion for those that may have made the same decision, where it didn't work out so well.
These family genealogies are getting complicated. McCain has 2 adopted sons from his first marriage, 3 children with his second wife, Cindy, and one adopted child (I think I got that right).
ReplyDeleteEnter Sarah and Todd Palin.
Need to rent an arena for the combined family photo.
The reasons why Mrs Palin had the youngest child could be medical or personal.
ReplyDeleteIn this day and age, every parent should look at the situation w/Bristol and say, "There but for the grace of God, go I."
Isn't it interesting, the left thinks Governor Palin belongs in the home and out working? If they're not careful they're going to lose the issue of pay equity which is very dear to Mrs. Obama.
As to having your 15, 16 or 17 year old on birth control. After preaching abstinence and HIV/Aids why you green light your teen to have sex, much less unprotected sex?
Just my opinion, but the doctors of the 1950's in that part of the US - ID, MT, ND, SD, and lower states - were an independent lot. And that's the nicest word I can think of. They functioned as family doctor, priest, therapist, and Mom all rolled into one out-in-the-middle-of-nowhere ball. They didn't always make the right calls.
ReplyDelete"...in the home and not out working.
ReplyDeletegenealogies
ReplyDeleteYes, and let's thank the Living Lord of Light that Ms. Palin, for her part, doesn't (yet) trace her line back to some damned king or queen of some European state!
American born and bred, just like she ought to be.
After preaching abstinence and HIV/Aids why you green light your teen to have sex, much less unprotected sex?
ReplyDeleteBecause being older and wiser you know they will anyway.
At any rate, the Obama response is the correct one - this is a family issue. I am not on board with the attempts to encroach on Palin's judgment.
Although I do have the urge to smack the 17-yr old right into Sunday.
She is seventeen years old. She is a child. Bearing a child.
ReplyDeleteWhat about this do you not get?
In Shakespeare, a main theme is young life pushing out the old. Boisterous Spring pushes out Old Man Winter.
ReplyDeleteThis is not stated directly, but with the whole movement of the play.
That is why Shakespeare is so good, he doesn't say listen up, moron, but just puts it out there for you to see.
A major theme in Shakespeare is the old count, or someboby or other with a high title, saying, don't we, my good wife, have a young daughter around the castle somewheres?
And, all unknown to him, Juliet is running off with Romeo.
Such is life, in the Palin family too.
Joseph Campbell agrees with this outlook, and says, all good myth affirms the reality of the world.
I don't get the "end of the world" scenario.
ReplyDeleteNot exactly Plan A but not the abyss of penance.
Holy cow.
ReplyDeleteI believe the proper phrase is "Holy Canoli"
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
ReplyDeleteWorkout time.
ReplyDelete"What is surprising is that not ONE of you contributors who have been on here some time said that that was a lie. Not one."
ReplyDeleteAll you said is that you would/could find out where we live.
Because that's the kind of sociopath that you are.
ReplyDeleteAh hell, Habu, I for one like you, but punch that damned bag really hard, get it out of your system, then come back with your bright mind, which I for one appreciate, and discourse on the events of the day, which very well could change some of our outlooks here.
ReplyDeleteAnd DON'T hit on Trish.
ReplyDeleteI'm just a lurker, Habu. Don't keep up with no "he said, she said"
ReplyDeleteYou obviously have a burr up your ass concerning DR. DR has a major league burr up his ass concerning McCain, and all things McCain to the point he wants Obama to win the election.
Reminds me of the Dems wanting us to fail miserably in Iraq and other places just to make Bush look bad.
This is warped thinking at the very least and I find it very disturbing.
Rat's a gentleman.
ReplyDeleteWith his own way of thinking about things.
Habu has his own way of thinking about things too, but is so corrosive, that after a while you don't want to read him anymore.
While with Rat, you are always eager to hear what he has to say.
Trish, what are you saying? That, this is the end of the road? Is McCain going to have to jettison Palin?
ReplyDelete2164th: The Democratic leadership talking points are saying that Obama has foreign experience because of his scripted trip of late.
ReplyDeleteThey're trying to milk some good out of that world tour, because otherwise it was the beginning of three awful weeks for Obama, and here comes week four. But giving the standard Obama campaign spiel in Berlin was foreign experience in the same way Hillary once got sniper-dodging experience, or the way Joe Biden is an "outsider" ready to bring "change".
I don't know.
ReplyDeleteWe shouldn't read our own biases into this.
Pat Lang said quite rightly that there's a difference between analysis and advocacy.
Lang himself can't tell the difference, even when he does it.
I believe it's bad news. YMMV.
Bobal: And DON'T hit on Trish.
ReplyDeleteWhy not? Trish says Habu is me, and I've got arms like string beans that probably couldn't raise a welt.
Well, T., I sure don't want anybody to hit on you.
ReplyDeleteI'm still sane enough to know that T is T and Habu is Habu.
Hope you had a great vacation.
"I've got arms like string beans that probably couldn't raise a welt."
ReplyDelete---
How do I miss all these cool personal insults?
And how does Trish know so much about your arms?
"While with Rat, you are always eager to hear what he has to say."
ReplyDelete---
Speak for yourself!
What bad news does Trish bear?
ReplyDeleteWhen did a-Bob become our resident Muslim Dr Phil?
ReplyDeleteDr. al-Bob, BS
ReplyDeleteI'm always eager to hear what everyone says.
ReplyDeleteWe got Old farts.
We got Young farts.
And, HAWAIIAN FARTS, too!
Not to worry, If the messiah daughter got knocked up I am sure he'd abort the fetus..
ReplyDeleteand I am prochoice dem...
But I am NOT in favor of birth control by abortion.
Obama has zero credibility
he has bullshitted 44% of the public. congrats to all the oprah's p diddy's, hamas lovers and useful idiots..
I for one AS A DEMOCRAT WILL NEVER VOTE FOR OBAMA..
I could care less if he nominated a corpse for VPotus, Obama is scary. His true roots are scary...
She's seventeen.
ReplyDeletetrish said...
ReplyDeleteShe is seventeen years old. She is a child. Bearing a child.
What about this do you not get?
That's what happens when to youngin's hump...
17 is old enough for a palestinian to become a suicide bomber..
I'd rather see 17 year olds humping than murdering...
Not to quibble but:
ReplyDeleteYoung Farts - one or two of the posters appear to be 30-40 yrs old;
Old Farts - most of the posters appear to be 40-50 yrs old; a handful appear to be 50-60 yrs old
And that's it.
"James Dobson, an influential Christian evangelical conservative, said his Focus on the Family group had always counseled young mothers to see their pregnancies through, "even though there will be of course challenges along the way."
ReplyDelete"That is what the Palins are doing, and they should be commended once again for not just talking about their pro-life and pro-family values, but living them out even in the midst of trying circumstances," he said in a statement."
---
So is librarian Trish more of a Puritan than Jame Dobson?
Them's Pineapple Scented Farts!
ReplyDeleteWIO watches Child Porn!
ReplyDeleteWhat really disturbs me about today's discussion is Ash coming on so strong about this tsk tsk tsk, when, most of us people of a little advanced age, know, this is a problem, and we should be helpful and work on it.
ReplyDeleteIt is not the plank of a political platform.
It is a human situation.
Ash comes across as an old tut tuting Aunt Bertha.
(Maybe you can make a sale, T!)
ReplyDeleteAsh comes across as an asshole hypocrit lefty w/a brain he chooses not to use.
ReplyDeleteDribbles lefty boilerplate instead.
an old tut tuting Aunt Bertha
ReplyDeleteFolks have to defend themselves, but it's shocking to find flawed people in this bar - just shocking.
I'm not seeing the deal-breaker.
I really don't think the people here know what a deal-breaker is.
It's much worse.
So is librarian Trish more of a Puritan than Jame Dobson?
ReplyDeleteTrish is an enigma.
I like puzzles.
"We shouldn't read our own biases into this."
ReplyDelete---
Librarians are born w/a computer chip up their rectum that takes over when the brain gets overly active.
Running on auto-biass, so to speak.
Bobal: Hope you had a great vacation.
ReplyDeleteIt was good. We took the scenic route to Portland, via the woods between Mt St Helens and Mt Adams where Bigfoot lives. Drove past some silly people in Cougar WA who were content to set up a tent on the side of the road. (Jeez, if you wanna rough it get up in the hills a little bit.) Took a tour of Timberline Lodge on Mt Hood which my girlfriend calls the "Haunted House" because they used it for the movie "The Shining", drove down to Hood River (damn that's pretty) but we couldn't find a parking spot at Multnomah Falls on Sunday. Slept on my mom's floor on Saturday night, but we had a nice king bed last night in a Marriott Courtyard.
Folks have to defend themselves, but it's shocking to find flawed people in this bar - just shocking.
ReplyDeleteThat was perfectly ambiguous.
I meant to say that the "tut tut" response has little venue in a world of imperfect human beings.
If that clarifies.
"It's much worse."
ReplyDelete---
Do tell.
If it's juicy enough, free drinks.
bobal, bobal, bobal,
ReplyDeleteThis is an election for the President of the United States of America and the candidate ability to choose their team is an important skill to evaluate. Here McCain is making a critical choice. If, as he claims, he made his choice knowing what we know today (the 17 year old is 5 months pregnant and husband Tod has a DUI in his past) what was he thinking? If he didn't know then that tells us a lot about his vetting process.
So, yes, lots of people get pregnant when they are teens, loads get busted for drinking and driving but do you want to select a relative unknown carrying this baggage as your running mate? Her positives don't seem to balance out these early negatives. Hopefully for McCain all the bad stuff is out now and we can deal with their approach to policy. I'm not convinced she's going to be much of a positive contributor on that front either but time will tell.
This comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteHey, who here thinks Crater Lake is one of the World's Greatest.
ReplyDelete(beside's me)
Damn cold to swim in tho.
Ash: So, yes, lots of people get pregnant when they are teens, loads get busted for drinking and driving but do you want to select a relative unknown carrying this baggage as your running mate?
ReplyDeleteAt least Sarah is carrying the family baggage. There's a half-brother of Obama in Africa right now living in abject poverty, and Obama won't even acknowledge he exists.
Seventeen and pregnant. No parent wants that for his kid, but being a parent is a humbling tutorial on life. You soon learn that your children are individuals and at different stages in life know more than you do. With five kids, they will all be different.
ReplyDeleteA seventeen year old girl in love thinks that she is the first woman on the planet in all of history to feel such feelings. There is a story here, but a universal human one, recognizable to all at all times.
No electoral consequence at all. It will be meaningful if Palin shows herself to be an unworthy candidate. Otherwise nada.
The reason, whit, that children are put on birth control, after preaching abstenence, HIV/AIDS etc, is that those do not work as birth control. Not 100%.
ReplyDeleteKids still get 'er done.
Ask Bristol.
My case we did the preaching, the speaking, the heart to hearts, and still....
My child is not having a child, until my child can make adult decisions. Until that time comes, my wife and I will make the decisions.
It's no time for minors to be having babies. That is not he role model of mothering that is needed in the US.
Is the "First Dude" selling the boat?
If not, he won't be doing the Mr Mom routine.
There is not much difference between Obama and McCain, gag, not much at all. It is in the margins and only by a few degrees.
Doug: Hey, who here thinks Crater Lake is one of the World's Greatest.
ReplyDeleteBeen there, done that, it's one of those places you see once, you go "Meh" and never come back. But on the island of Luzon they have Lake Taal, which has another island in it, and that island has another lake in it. And that lake has yet another island in it! And so on...
Lake Taal
Doug: And how does Trish know so much about your arms?
ReplyDeleteFrom all the flailing I do when she catches me out on my bullshit.
oh ya, and there is the third negative the firing of the state trooper who was her brother in law going through a nasty divorce.
ReplyDelete3 days, 3 negatives for the opposition to pick at. Aren't you supposed to go on the offense through the convention, develop momentum and all that kind of stuff??
Grandma grew up in a Yurt, or igloo, or whatever.
ReplyDeleteMaybe they could keep her and the grandkid there.
Is the "First Dude" selling the boat?
ReplyDeleteOne caption said it's a family business. That's gonna be one busy family, but that's what families are for.
He didn't lose the boat while he was winning 2,000 mile sno-mobile races, so they've got her covered.
The trooper didn't get fired ash.
ReplyDeleteGet your facts straight.
Amazing that in a society that does not feel that a 20 year old is responsible enough to drink a beer, that there are many that think 17 year olds are responsible enough to be parents.
ReplyDeleteFor abortion to become rare, it should not be used as a birth control method.
For that to happen, well, other forms of birth control will have to take its' place.
We stayed off Quadra Island in BC that did that, T.
ReplyDeleteHad loons that swam from one Island that was within the other which...
OK, DR, let's review
ReplyDeleteObama--closet Muslim
McCain--not
Obama--hangs out with hate spewing militants
McCain--not
Obama--wants to ban not only the right to carry a firearm, but to ban the sale, mfging, and ownership of handguns
McCain--not
Obama--Appoint Federal Judges who judge based on World law, not U.S. law
McCain--not
Obama--hangs out with criminals
McCain--not
Obama--marxist
McCain--not
Obama--hateful, bitch of a wife
McCain--not
Obama--re-distribution of wealth
McCain--not
I can keep going if you like.
...and a stream where the bear caught salmon.
ReplyDeleteDo tell.
ReplyDeleteLike pornography - you know it when you see it. Nobody should need a definition from me.
But I will say, this "17-yr old child" theme is tedious in the extreme not to mention tendentious.
In my generation, the women routinely gave birth at 18-20. They raised their children - with and without birth defects.
Arguably not the best life path but a responsible one. The "children" grew up - fast.
3 days, 3 negatives for the opposition to pick at. Aren't you supposed to go on the offense through the convention, develop momentum and all that kind of stuff??
ReplyDeleteGet the laundry on the line. Early. Most of this thread reminds me of an old barnyard metaphor I picked up in Nebraska, or somewhere back there...picking shit with the chickens.
Ash: oh ya, and there is the third negative the firing of the state trooper who was her brother in law going through a nasty divorce.
ReplyDeleteYeah, that's a negative to Dems who want to take after the French Model, where no one gets fired without an act of Congress. Why was it a nasty divorce? Death threats against his wife, driving drunk, and tasering ten year olds, for starters.
Maybe McCain will cut into the black vote, In 1940, the illegitimacy rate among blacks was 19 percent, in 1960, 22 percent, and today, it's 70 percent.
ReplyDeleteBarry's strongest Demo view having babies out of wedlock as the standard.
ReplyDeleteThat's the one, al-Bob.
ReplyDeleteThe One's demo, that is.
I know two other fellas, whit, with daughters of the same age as my own. They made that same argument, that insisting upon the use of birth control was "giving license" to misbehaviour.
ReplyDeleteBoth of those fellas are grandfathers, now.
At 17 my child is in college and working part time. Traveled to Sweden for two weeks and had a fabulous adventure.
Not home, microwaving formula.
She did say she was getting married. My grandmother married my grandfather at 16. They had nine children and died married. I have no idea if she was pregnant when she married but that was usually the end of many a courtship.
ReplyDeleteThe end being marriage while in a family way.
ReplyDeleteYou'll notice before I left the discussion was all high-minded and about politics and stuff.
ReplyDelete(linear)
ReplyDeleteWhat an amazing bunch of reactions to a 17 yr old getting pregnant!
ReplyDelete...from all us folks that never made ANY mistakes.
ms t wrote:
ReplyDelete"Why was it a nasty divorce?"
I dunno, I'm guessing the story has legs and we'll learn more.
Doug, good to see you tracking the story in detail - just election noise so far in my world. Tell us more about the attempt to fire the brother in law state trooper.
I pick the few that are low hanging, gag.
ReplyDeleteObama--closet Muslim
McCain--not
Funny, Obama is over twenty years a Christian, that is a point of concern about him, his Christian Church and his preacher.
Obama--Appoint Federal Judges who judge based on World law, not U.S. law
McCain--not
McCain will nominate and get confirmed the same types that Obama will. It is the confirmation that is paramount, not the nomination.
Or there'd be a Justice Bork.
Obama--hangs out with criminals
McCain--not
McCain's father-in-law is a convicted felon, in Federal Court. He was operating United Liquor as a criminal enterprise.
McCain hung out and traveled with Charles Keating, convicted felon. Keating paid Mrs McCain and her father over $250,000.
McCain is married to the mob.
Obama--hateful, bitch of a wife
McCain--not
Obviously, you have not known Cindy.
Neither pre nor post oxicontin
Part of the deal with McCain, people project upon him, too.
See it a lot amongst those that are not very familar with McCain, other than the MSM spin of the past 10 or 12 years.
The post Keating Five McCain.
The McCain that wrote the law Obama wants to use to silence that Ayers video.
44 Senators, loyal, brave and true.
No matter who wins, better have those 44 Senators. They are more important than the White House.
The Cascades are enchanting, Doug. From Mt Lassen to Nanaimo. Home to Bigfoot and the colony of Lemurians within the bowels of Mt Shasta. With good beer brewed from Willamette Valley hops, apples grown on the slopes of Mt Hood, and hot springs percolating up to sooth the weary sinews of the hearty Nordic residents.
ReplyDeleteWith a little more reflection, Palin has an obligation to show us what she really has. She probably used her free pass.
ReplyDeleteShe is a child. And you are advocating child mothership.
ReplyDeleteI cannot convey how really, really bad this is.
NY Times sees this as a very big deal hopefully:
ReplyDeletePalin’s Teen Daughter Is Pregnant; New G.O.P. Tumult
By KATHARINE Q. SEELYE 5:28 PM ET
I do not see a 17 year old as a child. That is a fabrication of the last ten years or so.
ReplyDeletea child is 7.
ReplyDeleteI was not unique and was in the military at 17. I was no child.
ReplyDelete"child mothership"
ReplyDeletea whole lot worse than what the medical community "advocated" in the 1950's for "special needs" children.
Our host informs:
ReplyDeleteIn 1940, the illegitimacy rate among blacks was 19 percent, in 1960, 22 percent, and today, it's 70 percent.
And it was reported that over 400,000 abortions are performed upon black women annually.
FOX News says
Blacks do, indeed, have much higher rates of abortions than whites or other minority groups. In 2000, while blacks made up 17 percent of live births, they made up more than twice that share of abortions (36 percent). If those aborted children had been born, the number of blacks born would have been slightly over 50 percent greater than it was.
Wonder what their out of wedlock numbers would be, if those babies had come to life.
For people who believed in the authority of the educated class.
ReplyDeleteThe law sees them as children, and their, your, brains have not fully matured at 17.
ReplyDeleteTheir judgement is flawed.
Their contracts voidable.
That is not a new extension of any legal definition. Minors have been able to void their contractual obligations for at least 50 years.
Bristol Palin is not an adult, but child about to be pressed into an adult role.
This is a common part of life, as many have noted. It is also an issue of judgement, Sarah Palin's judgements about her daughter and what her family really values.
Seventeen year olds are often put in adult positions, sometimes as mothers and fathers or soldiers, airmen, sailors or Marines, in others, as wi"o" told us, suicide bombers.
But they're still just kids
That younger Spear girls mother, I had the same issues about her.
ReplyDeleteTerrible role model to be accepting, almost promoting, fashionable premarital pregnency, when it is totally avoidable.
Premarital pregnency should be discouraged, regardless of the girls age or whether she has the baby, or not.
The Boys at the Bar and the GOP have accepted Murphy Brown and rejected Dan Quayle.
My, but how Republicans have grown.
Does anyone remember Tony and Cheri Blair?
ReplyDeleteYou were the one that was saying how hot the child was before she became a fat pig.
ReplyDeletePromoting your MTV as I recall.
I thot grown men getting horny over teenagers was more than a little weird.
ReplyDeleteThey shoulda never closed the Olympia Brewery!
ReplyDeleteWhat a great site.
"I cannot convey how really, really bad this is."
ReplyDelete---
Let the KOS kids do it for you.
...or James Dobson.
My, but how Republicans have grown.
ReplyDeleteAbout time.
Who's advocating "child motherhood?" It's a terrible idea in this day and age but should the girl abort? No.
ReplyDeleteIt doesn't have to mean life is over for the girl. It certainly complicates things but the family will have to deal with it.
What can you do? The deed is done.
I cannot convey how really, really bad this is.
ReplyDelete==
It's not so bad. Better than a 47 yr old having "made no mistakes" trying to get pregnant. The girl has a strong support system behind her. She'll do just fine.
Sounds like Iraq.
ReplyDeleteSeventeen year olds are often put in adult positions, sometimes as mothers and fathers or soldiers, airmen, sailors or Marines, in others, as wi"o" told us, suicide bombers.
ReplyDeleteBut they're still just kids
Nonsense...
at 17 hardly "kids"
at 17 legally responsible for their own crimes....
they are adults...
are they mature? most are not, however look at human history, 17 was middle aged for most of our history....
Now in today's world we view 17 as a young adult..
not quite a full adult but hardly a kid. times and circumstance define those realities for all of us..
can we sit in our own homes and judge the maturity or lack thereof of a unknown 17 year old?
personally I think she's very young and I dont KNOW how I'd handle the situation. But as I grow older I see more value to that potential life as time passes me by, as a pro-choice dem I cant but RESPECT the hard choice of a 17 year old to keep her child, marry her boyfriend and play the hand of cards they were dealt (and picked)...
It's easy for me to take a scolding pov and state "hey they got knocked up they can sleep in the bed they made..." but the truth be told my days from 15-18 were quite "unsuccessful" in finding a woman dumb enough (or horny) to actually get nekked with me....
It took tens of thousands of dollars to send me to college for me to find that perfect 1st love (plus numerous 6 packs) and in retrospect getting her knocked up was a VERY large fear she and I shared.... so how many remember rubbers, foam and diaphragms?
What would have happened if that 1st had gotten preggers?
dont know...
but she didnt...
and so started my life as a sexual adult, totally fearful of producing offspring....
today, the term bastard child is PC not allowed...
shame is not an issue...
70% of african american births are out of wedlock....
murphy brown got famous due to wanting a child in her 40s without a male partner...
I on the other hand, actually was married for 10 years before my 1st.....
but it is funny that MY party, the democrat party, the party of the liberal side would have issues with a 17 year old having sex....
I guess it's only bad when the GOPers hump
"Better than a 47 yr old having "made no mistakes" trying to get pregnant. "
ReplyDelete---
Agreed.
Or the present trend to childlessness.
"toward"
ReplyDeleteYouz like a boiled egg. I prefer an omelet.
ReplyDeleteRe: Iraq
ReplyDeleteLook @ all the conservative college educated women in the media that are childless.
ReplyDeleteGood old College, eh?
"but it is funny that MY party, the democrat party, the party of the liberal side would have issues with a 17 year old having sex....
ReplyDeleteI guess it's only bad when the GOPers hump"
---
The same party that excoriates Mrs. Edwards in the midst of her trauma and terminal illness, while at the same time heaping unlimited praise on Hillary, and forgetting what the definition of sexual harassment is whenever they need to.
...when Hillary was the attack dog for Bubba's crimes.
The Boys at the Bar and the GOP have accepted Murphy Brown and rejected Dan Quayle.
ReplyDeleteWhat a stretch.
Premarital pregnency should be discouraged, regardless of the girls age or whether she has the baby, or not.
Are you implying Sarah Palin encouraged it, or that any one here is advocating it? Were you a fly on the wall in the Palin home? What a fatuous pile of bull shit.
Palins and McCain had a choice to make. They made it. Two reasons come to mind. The first is that it was a bald political gambit to gain some transient advantage over Obama's campaign momentum. The second is that knowing the inevitable shit storm that would erupt, they decided that character and honor would prevail over the naysayers.
I believe the latter. What you believe is beyond me to understand or influence.
It's still a long way to go to arrive at "Jon & Kate Plus 8". And even that didn't turn out so bad.
ReplyDeleteHey I watch that show.
ReplyDeleteDan has a show?
ReplyDeleteIt's not so bad. Better than a 47 yr old having "made no mistakes" trying to get pregnant. The girl has a strong support system behind her. She'll do just fine.
ReplyDeleteI think Mat has it about right.
That's mature judgement.
It's not the end of the world.
Actually, it's the start of one.
That's mature judgement.
ReplyDelete==
Bob is trying to slay me with sweet nothings. :D
gee golly gosh, y'all must be so impressed with the negro community and their penchant for 17 yr old moms! Faster, faster, more, more babies! Damn the torpedos...
ReplyDeletegee golly gosh, y'all must be so impressed with the negro community and their penchant for 17 yr old moms! Faster, faster, more, more babies! Damn the torpedos...
ReplyDelete==
Ashley,
This isn't a poor negro family. This is a relatively well to do family that can fully support this child, even if the situation is not ideal.
Your welfare state has eliminated Black Fathers, that's the problem, FDR.
ReplyDelete