Sunday, March 23, 2008

Only Five Years On in Iraq. In Their Own Words.


“Bring ‘em on. We’ve got the force necessary to deal with the security situation.”

–President Bush, when asked if the insurgency and resulting U.S. casualties might cause him to ask for more help from U.S. allies, July 2, 2003.


Five years on in Iraq and we have no reason to believe that things will be different five years from today. There are some differences. Oil that was $25 a barrel in 2003 is now $100 and the value of the dollar has declined 40% against the Euro. There are 4000 more dead American warriors and 40,000 wounded. Bin Laden is still alive. George Bush will be getting a handsome pension in eight months and you will be paying for his foolishness for generations.
_____________________

From the Agitator and Reason online

I went browsing throught the Cato website archives, and pulled up a few old predictions from Cato scholars as to what might happen in post-war Iraq. I then found similar predictions from Bush administration officials.

I’ll let you judge for yourselves which predictions came closer to foreseeing what’s actually going on right now.

First, from Catoites:

“In the words of one Iraqi: ‘We thank the Americans for getting rid of Saddam’s regime, but now Iraq must be run by Iraqis.’ To prevent that gratitude from turning to resentment and hostility, we must have the wisdom to leave as quickly as possible. If we don’t, the United States runs the risk of reliving its experience in Lebanon in the 1980s. Or worse, our own version of the Soviet experience in Afghanistan — Arabs and Muslims from the region could flock to Iraq to expel the American infidel.
–Charles V. Pena, May 8, 2003.

“Promoters of nation-building in Iraq, including many who scorned similar efforts by a Democratic administration a few years ago, point to nation-building successes in Germany and Japan following World War II. Along these same lines, Bush declared that ‘[r]ebuilding Iraq will require a sustained commitment’ and that the United States would ‘remain in Iraq as long as necessary, and not a day more.’ But there are still more than 70,000 U.S. troops in Germany and 50,000 in Japan, and this lingering troop presence has given rise to a virulent anti-Americanism. If these ’success’ stories reflect the model for post-war Iraq, we should expect U.S. troops to remain in this troubled region for many years.”
–Christopher Preble, March 4, 2003

“In the absence of strong allies and regional bases, the successful prosecution of another war in Iraq may be more costly in time, lives and resources than the Gulf War.”

–William Niskanen, December 31, 2001

“Another war in Iraq may serve bin Laden’s objective of unifying radical Muslims around the world in a jihad against the United States, increasing the number of anti-U.S. terrorists. In contrast, the Sept. 11 attacks and the successful prosecution of the war in Afghanistan have divided the Muslim political elite.”

–Niskanen

“American popular support may not be sufficient to prosecute a sustained war against Saddam.”
–Niskanen

“Yet no matter how emotionally satisfying removing a thug like Saddam may seem, Americans would be wise to consider whether that step is worth the price. The inevitable U.S. military victory would not be the end of America’s troubles in Iraq. Indeed, it would mark the start of a new round of headaches. Ousting Saddam would make Washington responsible for Iraq’s political future and entangle the United States in an endless nation-building mission beset by intractable problems.”
–Ted Galen Carpenter, January 14, 2002

“If Iraq’s forces don’t quickly crumble, the U.S. might find itself involved in urban conflict that will be costly in human and political terms.”
–Doug Bandow, August 12, 2002

“The Gulf War Cost $80 billion (in 2002 dollars). Because the United States would probably be faced with a long occupation of Iraq to stabilize the country after the invasion, the cost is likely to be higher this time around. And unlike the Gulf War, no financial support from other nations can be expected to defray the costs.”
–Ivan Eland, August 19, 2002

“The MacArthur Regency worked in Japan because the U.S. occupiers entered a country sick to death of war, with a tradition of deference to authority…

…That process is particularly unlikely to be repeated in Iraq, a fissiparous amalgam of Sunnis, separatist Shiites and Kurds. Keeping the country together will require a strong hand and threatens to make U.S. servicemen walking targets for discontented radicals.”
–Gene Healy, January 1, 2003


“My best guess is that war and its aftermath would be more costly and difficult than the optimists admit. The fact that presidential adviser Larry Lindsey publicly estimates it would cost $100 billion to $200 billion implies the administration expects a second Iraq war to be two or three times more difficult than the first one.”
–Alan Reynolds, November 21, 2002.

Keep those in mind when reading the following, from the war’s chief architects:


“The United States is committed to helping Iraq recover from the conflict, but Iraq will not require sustained aid.”
–OMB Director Mitch Daniels, quote in the Washington Post on April 21, 2003.

“Well, the Office of Management and Budget, has come up come up with a number that’s something under $50 billion for the cost. How much of that would be the U.S. burden, and how much would be other countries, is an open question.”
–Donald Rumsfeld, January 19, 2003.

“Costs of any [Iraq] intervention would be very small.”
–White House economic advisor Glen Hubbard, October 4, 2002.

“Iraq has tremendous resources that belong to the Iraqi people. And so there are a variety of means that Iraq has to be able to shoulder much of the burden for their own reconstruction.”
–Ari Fleischer, February 18, 2003.

“We’re dealing with a country that can really finance its own reconstruction, and relatively soon.”
–Paul Wolfowitz, March 27, 2003.

“A year from now, I’ll be very surprised if there is not some grand square in Baghdad that is named after President Bush.”
–Richard Perle, September 22, 2003.

“I expect we will get a lot of mitigation [from other countries re: the cost of rebuilding Iraq], but it will be easier after the fact than before the fact.”

–Paul Wolfowitz, March 27, 2003.

“Some of the higher-end predictions that we have been hearing recently, such as the notion that it will take several hundred thousand U.S. troops to provide stability in post-Saddam Iraq, are wildly off the mark.

–Wolfowitz

“There are other differences that suggest that peacekeeping requirements in Iraq might be much lower than historical experience in the Balkans suggests.”

–Wolfowitz, February 27, 2003

“I am reasonably certain that they will greet us as liberators, and that will help us to keep requirements down.”
–Wolfowitz

“Well, I don’t think it’s likely to unfold that way. . . . The read we get on the people of Iraq is there is no question but what they want to the get rid of Saddam Hussein, and they will welcome as liberators the United States when we come to do that.”

–Dick Cheney, when asked if the American public is ready for a long, bloody battle, March 16, 2003 (Incidentally, in a mid-May 2004 poll commissioned by the U.S.-led CPA, just 2% of Iraqis viewed U.S. troops as “liberators”).

“I don’t think it would be that tough a fight.”
–Cheney.



93 comments:

  1. On the eve of the invasion, five years ago, we steeled ourselves to losses (dead) in the tens of thousands. As many as 50k or 60K as I remember.

    So now, five years later we are approaching 4K. What happened to America?

    It went soft. No stomach.

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  2. As for the money...where's the damn oil?

    If there was ever a time to pump Iraq's oil, it is now. It wouldn't take long for the US to recover the expense of the war.

    ReplyDelete
  3. Grandma's Revenge...
    A Black Guy Asks Nation For Change in the Windy City:
    ---
    "I'll be honest, when that black guy said he would 'stop at nothing' to get change, it kind of scared me," local mechanic Phil Nighbert said. "Just leave me alone."

    Though many were taken aback by the black man's brazen demands, some, such as Jackson, MS's Holly Moser, sympathized with him. She gave the black man credit for boldly standing up and asking every last person around him for change.

    "I told him I'd give him some if I saw him later, even though I probably won't," Moser said. "Very nice man, though."

    Most, however, ignored his requests.

    "I'm a hardworking American who pays his taxes, and the last thing I need is some guy on the street demanding change from me," said William Overkamp, a Springfield, IL gun-shop owner.

    He added, "What he really needs is a job."

    ReplyDelete
  4. Sci-fi writer Clarke laid to rest...

    "He said he had managed to escape 40 British winters and had no regrets," Mr Clarke told AFP news agency.

    ---

    H A L + 1 =
    I B M

    FWIW

    ReplyDelete
  5. PLEASEEEEE...

    Monday morning quarterbacks...

    OK, have it your way, never should have broken iraq...

    Under saddam HE did murder 450,000 iraqis... this is good, so we stopped him, what idiots...

    Under saddam, he invaded iran and murdered 1.5 MILLION IRANIANS, AND WE TOOK HIM OUT OF POWER? what fucktards are we...

    Under saddam he attacked israel and arabia and killed hundreds, while scaring the shit out of millions threatening to burn half of israel. And we had the nerve to take him out...

    Under saddam he invaded kuwait, raped thousands, murdered thousands more, and we stopped him... what a bunch of fucktards we are...

    under saddam the clintons set up the no fly zones after saddam tried to genocidally murder kurds and the marsh arabs, and after many were executed we stopped him, again what fucktards we are...

    so 5 years on, we have lost 4000, great valuable american lives TRYING to control a vichy-facist inspired people, that has never known ANYTHING except murder, rape and violence as normal politics...

    grow some balls america, we lost more boys in 10 minutes at normandy...

    jews lost more people in 20 minutes in the gas chambers during ww2...

    america lost 620,000 in our civil war....

    the alternative was to leave iraq in place...

    allow him to fund suicide bombers

    allow him to develop all types of weapons, dont think wmd exist? ask the gassed kurds... think we could continue to just do nothing? then look to eurabia for the example...

    like the war or not, it was not our choice, back when the war was started EVERY MAJOR nation in the world expected saddam to have and USE bio & chem weapons, the fact that he shuffled them off to syria? too bad...

    now here we are, 5 years into the project and pussies bitch that it' lasting longer than ww2...

    and yet we still have troops in europe and japan 60 years after ww2.

    how much of the treasure of america that has been spent has been spent IN america for weapons, munitions & supplies?

    the cost of failure in iraq is not acceptable, unless you seek mass murder and interesting times.

    Personally I would not shed a tear to watch shits and suns blow each other up, as they have been doing for centuries. However the JACKASS of people of the world, the arabs, must be dragged from their self imposed stupidity or they will turn into one giant gaza-like shit hole.

    so bitch all you want, we aint leaving... cause if we do, all hell will break loose like you cant even imagine. Dont like 4 dollar gas? how much will gas cost if 1/2 the world's oil is OFFLINE?

    you are dealing with inbred, retarded peoples of the arab middle east (not to exclude the iranian shit's leadership) they ONLY thing they understand is a boot up their ass....

    on other point, do you know the concept suicide by cop?

    i state that the project called "iraq" has turned into a giant death by cop senario.

    Just read the stats, from every islamic retarded corner, retards have flocked to iraq to kill americans, (all encouraged by their governments) these untrained retards have been killed by the thousands, thus depopulating other arab / islamic nations of these unstable peoples. Yes several examples do not prove the point, but they are as well, areas of current conflict (pakistan, palestine & lebanon)

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  6. WiO: Dont like 4 dollar gas? how much will gas cost if 1/2 the world's oil is OFFLINE?

    That would give the US an excuse to seize all the oilfields in the Middle East outright, to be administered by a more reliable client, and Europe, China, and Japan would give their blessings.

    ReplyDelete
  7. Doug: "I'm a hardworking American who pays his taxes, and the last thing I need is some guy on the street demanding change from me," said William Overkamp, a Springfield, IL gun-shop owner.

    That's really good, you found an anectdote in opposition to change.

    According to a new Washington Post-ABC News poll (Nov. 2007) concern about the economy, the war in Iraq and growing dissatisfaction with the political environment in Washington all contribute to the lowest public assessment of the direction of the country in more than a decade. Just 24 percent think the nation is on the right track, and three-quarters said they want the next president to chart a course that is different than that pursued by Bush.

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  8. WiO: Dont like 4 dollar gas? how much will gas cost if 1/2 the world's oil is OFFLINE?

    That would give the US an excuse to seize all the oilfields in the Middle East outright, to be administered by a more reliable client, and Europe, China, and Japan would give their blessings.



    keep dreaming...

    the ONLY choice we have, is the destruction of middle eastern oil as a primary fuel.

    right now it seems like it is a fantasy, but if the oil of the middle east were radioactive, not so much a fantasy.

    look to iran to strike arabia to drive up the cost of oil...

    Personally, I am betting on technology ANY there being no other choice to get us off middle eastern oil.

    the storm that is coming will be difficult but not impossible.

    I sure would not want to be living anywhere else but america in the upcoming savage world of energy wars....

    remember with energy wars comes FOOD & Water wars....

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  9. I think Whit's got it right. We weren't so far off in the casualty department, but the cost estimates were laughable as it turns out. It's time we get some return on the investment.
    ---------

    The imagination, as Wallace Stevens once said, is always at the end of an era.

    Climate Facts To Warm To

    I thought Stevens was wrong in that, but then I then I thought I don't know what he really means, is his imagination looking backwards or forwards? Becasue the USA has had at least two hopeful periods I can think of. Though it seems doom and gloom now, even when things are pretty darn good, if you look around the world, and into the past.

    A hopeful Easter to all.

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  10. Aenea = That Multi Persona Flip.

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  11. Bill Richardson endorses Obama, James Carville compares him to Judas:

    “Mr. Richardson’s endorsement came right around the anniversary of the day when Judas sold out for 30 pieces of silver, so I think the timing is appropriate, if ironic,” Mr. Carville said, referring to Holy Week.

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  12. The Transfiguration

    Some people say the story of the Transfiguration in the gospels is a misplaced Easter narrative. Others have different ideas.

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  13. WiO: I sure would not want to be living anywhere else but america in the upcoming savage world of energy wars....

    What about living in Brazil or Argentina, which export biofuel?

    ReplyDelete
  14. Is a blogger name change a transfiguration, or the work of the devil?

    ReplyDelete
  15. Here's the proof that Obama's church is really a political party---they can't let it rest on this one day of the year--on this day, of all the days of the year......

    Obama's pastor 'crucified' just like Jesus by Romans
    New minister at controversial church proclaims: 'No one should end their ministry with lynching'


    Posted: March 23, 2008
    12:22 pm Eastern

    © 2008 WorldNetDaily

    The new pastor at Barack Obama's church says his predecessor, the Rev. Jeremiah Wright, was in a sense crucified just like Jesus Christ at the hands of the Romans.

    According to Fox News, Rev. Otis Moss III titled his Easter sunrise sermon "How to Handle a Public Lynching," focusing mainly on the media firestorm over the Chicago church attended by the Democratic presidential candidate.

    Moss reportedly did not specify Wright by name, but told the congregation at Trinity United Church of Christ
    that Wright, who has delivered sermons in which he likened the U.S. to the Ku Klux Klan and saying it is damned for its state-sponsored terrorism, is facing the same challenges Jesus did.

    Moss said: "No one should start a ministry with lynching, no one should end their ministry with lynching. The lynching was national news. The RNN, the Roman News Network, was reporting it and NPR, National Publican Radio had it on the radio. The Jerusalem Post and the Palestine Times all wanted exclusives, they searched out the young ministers, showed up unannounced at their houses, tried to talk with their families, called up their friends, wanted to get a quote on how do you feel about the lynching?"

    The network says Moss made several pleas for donations to what he called the "Resurrection Fund," urging that money was needed at this time to defend the church.

    He concluded by saying, "In order to crucify him you've got to lift him up ... he had more visibility on the cross than he did during his entire ministry."

    Neither Wright nor Obama were at today's service in Chicago.

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  16. Bobal: Some people say the story of the Transfiguration in the gospels is a misplaced Easter narrative. Others have different ideas.

    "Life goes down to be killed; Bread goes down to suffer hunger; the Way goes down to be exhausted on his journey; the Spring goes down to suffer thirst..." St Augustine

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  17. ...it does seem to an outsider that Obama’s judgment upon his grandmother is as harsh as his tolerance of Wright is benign. It isn’t as if he was raised in Trinity Baptist Church. He chose it as an adult.
    He chose those sermons he now calls “incendiary” and “inexcusable.”

    He says now that Wright misses the dynamism of American society, yet when it came time to decide where his daughters would attend church, he chose Trinity, where they would “learn” that the U.S. government concocted the AIDS virus to wipe out the African-American population, that the U.S. would “plant” WMDs in Iraq, and that blacks harming other blacks are “fighting the wrong enemy.”

    A beautifully delivered speech cannot overcome that history.

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  18. A transnickpseudonymnamification.

    Ha! That was a good one bob, if I do say so meself.

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  19. Is St Augustine the ideal lawn in Paradise?

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  20. Wright no longer resides on the Planet.
    For the Record.

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  21. Doug, those Trumpeter Swans we saw yesterday were really really beautiful. You ever seen one? First time for me. Black legs and bill. Silent though, didn't hear 'em trumpet.

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  22. I missed the post.
    One of my favorites is the Blue Heron.
    We had them both on the stream on our farm and in the wetlands of Moro Bay.

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  23. I haven't seen nor heard the Swan.
    After many a summer it dies,
    so I'd better get a move on.

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  24. A takeoff from a Willow canopied creek is a masterpiece of navigation!

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  25. Think the Heron was in the Redwoods, also.

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  26. The Egrets here are fearless.
    Funny Scene is one walking across a Bouganvilla Hedge.

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  27. Bougainvillea is a genus of flowering plants native to South America from Brazil west to Peru and south to southern Argentina

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  28. We've got herons around the rivers here, too, though I'm not certain just what type.

    A takeoff from a Willow canopied creek is a masterpiece of navigation!

    That's the truth! A landing too!

    I remember the Bougainvillea. Hawaii always smelled nice.

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  29. It is the largest North American heron, with a head-to-tail length of 91–137 cm (36-54 in), a wingspan of 180 cm (71 in),

    ...but it navigates a 15 ft wide tunnel!

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  30. Rodent Patrol

    Although the Great Blue Heron eats primarily fish, it is adaptable and willing to eat other animals as well.

    Several studies have found that voles (mice) were a very important part of the diet, making up nearly half of what was fed to nestlings in Idaho.

    Occasionally a heron will choke to death trying to eat a fish that is too large to swallow.

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  31. It's got to be the Great Blue. Stands there on one leg, sometimes. Stands in the river, statuesque, fishing.

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  32. EB executive board - good one!

    PUMP THE DAMN OIL!

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  33. Never bite off more than you can chew, or swallow, mother always said.

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  34. bob:
    I listened to a bunch of podcasts from Idaho NPR, a show called "Off the Trail."

    Join veteran producer, Jyl Hoyt as she goes Off the Trail in search of the stories of Idaho's rich bio-diversity. From butterflies to Big Horn Sheep, from wolves to whales and from Blue Heron to Redband Trout, enjoy a weekly visit with these fascinating species in their natural habitat.

    They're Global Warming Acolytes over at BSU.

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  35. Hugh Fitzgerald: How could anyone in his right mind not be on the side of Israel?

    The Israelis, or a majority of them, know their true situation. It is their government, from which so many Israelis are now so obviously disaffected, that refuses to know. But that government is wrong. Soberly recognizing the permanent meaning, and menace, of Islam, and acting and planning accordingly, and helping or insisting that other countries, including the United States, recognize the real nature of the threat that Israel faces, is not a counsel of despair. Nor is helping those other countries, including the United States, to understand that the Jihad against Israel is a Lesser Jihad, one of many whose sum is the worldwide Jihad, a "struggle" by Muslims, using various instruments that go beyond, and are more effective, than terrorism, to remove all obstacles to the spread and then to the dominance of Islam.

    Everywhere Islam must triumph. Everywhere, eventually, Muslims must rule. It may take a century, or two. It doesn't matter. It doesn't matter if it never comes to be. What matters is the fact of the promptings, that will not go away unless the Qur'an, the Hadith, the Sira either disappear, or are modified, or interpreted away, or are received as texts from which one may pick and choose. Until then, the immutable and uncreated Qur'an remains, the literal Word of God, outside of history.

    Israel is not its only, not even its main, target. But for decades it has been the most-publicized target of Jihad, for the existence of an Infidel nation-state, smack in the middle of Dar al-Islam, and run by the despised Jews, is simply something that sends many Muslims into a fury. Some conceal that fury for the benefit of Western donors and diplomats, but that fury will always remain.

    The Israelis -- or most of them -- now understand this. It is Haim Ramon, and Ehud Olmert, and the Livni lady, and David Landau of Ha'aretz, and the permanently preening leftists who do not understand it, for they all learn what they need to know about Israel from their "Palestinian" friends -- the ones whom it is de rigueur for a certain kind of Israeli leftist to possess, and to prefer to those difficult Jewish fellow citizens who seem so...so...unwilling to compromise. Their rigidity is so unlike the flexibility and openness of those very nice "Palestinian friends," doing their own version of Edward Said courting, say, this or that Jewish professor at Columbia, or the musician Daniel Barenboim.

    Yes, Israel appeared to be the sole victim (for those who never let their gaze wander over to the subcontinent, to India) until recently, when the OPEC trillions and Muslim millions in Europe made much larger goals, once scarcely conceivable, now entirely conceivable. Before that, the reconquest of Israel was the one goal that got all the attention. That the Arabs seemed exercised only by Israel (with its implied corollary that if Israel were to be thrown to the wolves, all manner of things would be well) was merely an optical illusion.

    If it is any consolation to Israel, it now can share that attention with Infidel peoples and polities everywhere.

    Indeed, how could anyone in his right mind not be on the side of Israel?

    How can those diplomats at the U.N., the ones from the quasi-civilized countries, stand to vote as they are told to? Why does not one of them simply resign, on the spot, in a fit of moral fury?

    How can those who presume to make policy in the capitols of the Western world, including Washington, London and, especially Berlin, and in all the rest of Europe, presume to preach to Israel as to what that tiny country, under permanent siege, has a "right" to do, as to what constitutes a "proportional" response, as to what Israel simply "must" give up, after it has already, for the past half century, again and again given up in every negotiation and every treaty, all of which have been, and all of which will be, breached by the Muslims who take as their model the Treaty of Hudaibiyya?

    No one has the moral right to lecture or hector Israel about anything. No one has the moral right to pressure it about anything, to belabor it about anything, to dare to condemn it for anything, as it fights, and will have permanently to fight, for its life.

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  36. I've got a big, blue heron that fishes in my back yard. The only place on the lake (pond?) I ever see him fish.

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  37. http://radio.boisestate.edu/nproffthetrail.html

    Should be called "Off the Rails."

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  38. in search of the stories of Idaho's rich bio-diversity. From butterflies to Big Horn Sheep, from wolves to whales and from Blue Heron to Redband Trout,

    :) Now there's a 'big fish' story, but maybe the Idaho Fish and Game Department has planted some recently, maybe in Tolo Lake, though I missed them.

    They smoke too much weed down there at Boise State University, Whit.

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  39. Doug's got wolves and Big Horn Sheep right out his front door. No whales around Hawaii, though.

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  40. Any whales in your lake, Ruf? If not, maybe the heron got 'em.

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  41. Just south of Haifa there are fish farms where white storks and other birds would congregate on their annual migration from Europe. Bird watching and fishing. Boy was I spoiled as a kid. Didn't catch seeing any babies delivered, but babies were being made not too far from there on the sandy beaches..

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  42. You're undoubtedly right about the weed but I think they also drank the kool-aid!

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  43. You watched the storks mating on the beaches, Mat? Shame on you, no respect for privacy.:)

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  44. I haven't seen any whales, lately, Bob. I guess I caught the Last One. :)

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  45. Bob,

    I could not not watch.
    Chuck it up as just one of my failings. :)

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  46. I saw a rout of wolves chasing a gam of whales through here just the other day.

    Names

    I'll add it to the list, Mat.:)

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  47. He meant he watched the eggs hatch, albob!
    You Muslim farmers are all alike!

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  48. A neverthriving of jugglers

    A parliament of owls

    A ponder of philosopheers

    A loft of pigeons

    A converting of preachers

    A disworship of Scots

    A bank or bevy of swans

    A hover of trout

    A ship of fools

    ReplyDelete
  49. If whales are endangered down your way, Ruf, we can truck some in from here and restock. Just call Idaho Fish, Whale and Game.

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  50. A ship of fools..

    "How can those who presume to make policy in the capitols of the Western world, including Washington, London and, especially Berlin, and in all the rest of Europe, presume to preach to Israel as to what that tiny country, under permanent siege, has a "right" to do, as to what constitutes a "proportional" response, as to what Israel simply "must" give up, after it has already, for the past half century, again and again given up in every negotiation and every treaty, all of which have been, and all of which will be, breached by the Muslims who take as their model the Treaty of Hudaibiyya?"

    That is corruption that is speaking. We all know and understand this. The governments, the ambassadors, the politicians, they all know and understand this, and are paralyzed by it. Billions and trillions of Jihadi oil dollars contorting and disfiguring our institutions, our politics. This is what reliance on Jihadi controlled oil has bequeathed us, a world that is upside down.

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  51. Life is just one long challenge, Mat. That's the way it is.

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  52. Sidonologists continue arguing about the Shroud of Turin.
    ---------

    Our proposed ethanol plant here has been discontinued, though I'm not sure why. Our proposed nuclear energy plant in south Idaho is still wending it's way through all sorts of tangles, but still on the drawing boards.

    Diesel fuel is $4 a gallon. Talked to a guy the other day that had a massive pickup with a 35 gallon tank. I believe he said he was getting 14, though it may have been 16, miles per gallon, overall--on diesel. Cost about $140 to fill that puppy up. That's about my monthly car payment.

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  53. Bob:
    I heard a story about bio-fuels being too expensive right now even with government subsidies. (High commodity prices.)

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  54. They had the permits. Everybody here is for it. The start up costs of building the plant may be way up there. Also, we don't have corn around here, so there may be something about getting the makings at a price that works. Maybe the banks got faint hearted. I'll try to find out. There will be another article in the paper one of these days. Twas my banker that told me, but he didn't know why.

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  55. If you haven't got your money in the bank, and construction underway, you're probably out of the corn ethanol business, right now.

    The perceived limit for "Corn" ethanol in the new energy bill is 15 Billion Gal/Yr. The plants in operation, and under construction come out to 13.4 Billion GPY. There are, probably, 20, or so, threatening to start construction "Any Day."

    Nobody wants to be the one producing the 15 Bil to 15.1 Bil Gallons. Also, you have an unsettled climate as regards recent oil-funded negative stories in the media, and high soft commodity prices.

    And, everyone is watching, nervously, the "cellulosic" ethanol story. Too much going on; too hard to assess the future risk. Time to go fishing. We'll look at it again, next year.

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  56. What Would Grandma Say?

    The dems, bless them, both Hill/Bill and Obama, have got themselves into one helluva pickle. Damned if they do, damned if they don't, what to do, what to do...it's a beautiful thing to watch.

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  57. "The dems, bless them, both Hill/Bill and Obama, have got themselves into one helluva pickle. Damned if they do, damned if they don't, what to do, what to do...it's a beautiful thing to watch."
    ---
    That's EXACTLY what I said to the wife about the time you posted it, I'd bet.
    BUT!
    I Had a Caveat, not a Caviar Dream, a CAVEAT!
    ...'twoud be a beautiful thing
    IF
    WE Had a decent mf..... candidate.
    But,
    we don't.
    Game Over 8 more years of downward spiral.
    Sorry, that's the way it is.

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  58. It's not US oil to pump, in Iraq.

    We've stated that time and again.

    The existing infrastructure is running flat out.
    The Shia dominated Government, which Mr Bush and Team43 touted as the "solution" will not come to terms on developmental authority, as concerns the Kurds and Sunni areas, still.

    The Iraqi are pumping the oil, all the existing infrastructure can manage. There has been no increase in capacity since the fall of Saddam, no investments in increased production, just expenses to mainain what was already there.

    rufus tells US ethanol production is "frozen" in place. Both by law of Congress and economics.

    15 billion gallons per year, just about 1.3 days worth of imported oil. Energy independence, hooorah!

    Better to integrate Mexico and Canada into the Union, and forget about Iraq.
    Take care of business in our own backyard, not half way around the world, where none of US speak the language.

    The Union forever, hoorah boys hoorah.
    Those Republicans, all for the Union, down with the traitors,
    and up with the Cause!

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  59. Farmer Albob and I don't and WON'T Speak the Union Language, Pardner!

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  60. Actually we import about 12 billion BARRELS of oil, daily.

    44 gallons per, I believe.

    So 15 billion gallons, not even a few hours' worth of "independence".

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  61. Then, amigo mio, you certainly are not Republicans

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  62. You got that right,
    Farmer Albob may still have dreams.

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  63. 44 Friggin Gal/Day!
    Lota F..... Energy!
    ...and we both know how little you can live on.
    ...lotta room for compromise if we got smart.
    BUT
    The GOP Mantra is Conservation is a losing game.
    One more strike agin me!

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  64. Hawaii could go 100% Wind/Solar right now and save money at TODAY'S RATES!

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  65. Oh btw, Ruf,
    Screw Bio except for transportation, right?

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  66. They're talkin about a Big BioElectric Plant here!
    Pure Big Business, Centralized LUNACY!
    (and, hard as hell on the environment, compared to wind/solar)

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  67. Down with the proposed North American Union. Down with the Amero.

    Up with Nitrogen Fixation.

    Away with my fixation on Zsa Zsa.

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  68. Sun Mar 23, 11:43:00 PM EDT
    Well, some local plants like Willie Nelsons.
    All Pie in the sky til the shit really hits the fan I guess.
    Otherwise known as the human condition.

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  69. Yeah Zza Zza and Pelosi!
    Better switch to Huffington!
    Sounds the same!

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  71. This sounds kinda Cool!
    Haven't read it yet.
    Death is always good for some folks, I figure.
    ---
    Unclear and future danger
    Is this censorship or what?

    U.S. military spokesman Rear Admiral Greg Smith said that in the past year, 39 al Qaeda members in Iraq responsible for producing and disseminating videos and other material to thousands of Internet Web sites had been captured or killed.

    It's not censorship, but war. Information war.

    The Belmont Club is supported largely by donations from its readers.

    Read more! posted by Wretchard at 3/23/2008 06:40:00 PM | 1 comments links to this post

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  72. Dang Silent UFOS There one minute gone the next.

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  73. A supernova half the universe away was visible last night, and you people were asleep, or blogging.:(

    http://news.aol.com/story/_a/distant-stars-explosion-shatters-record/20080321184809990001

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  74. Unbelievable shot of the "Hole in the Sky," Bob; and, Great Article on Nitrogen fixation. That Gene-Splicing will, without a doubt, change the world, enormously. I can't believe some people are able to be Negative.

    Doug; I don't know. Hawaii has so many Solar, Wind, Wave, Current, Waste-to-Electric Resources I have a hard time getting my head around any biodiesel to electricity scheme. That IS what they're talking about, right?

    Rat, we import about 12 "Million" barrels/day; not 12 Billion. Just a couple less zeros, Bubba; ya know?

    The energy bill doesn't cap "Ethanol" at 15 Billion, just "Corn" ethanol (actually, it doesn't do that, either, in actuality, but that's another story.)

    We're replacing about 6% of our gasoline with ethanol at present, and we'll probably be doing around 7% by the end of the year.

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  75. The U of Idaho and Washington State University have been tinkering with the idea of nitrogen fixing wheat for quite a while, trying to splice genes I suppose, sort of hit, and always miss. They failed.

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  76. grow some balls america, we lost more boys in 10 minutes at normandy...

    jews lost more people in 20 minutes in the gas chambers during ww2...

    america lost 620,000 in our civil war....

    - what is

    Whatever the hell made you think it's primarily the number of dead to which a majority of Americans has responded by withdrawing their support for the war - rather than precisely a rejection of the notion that "the JACKASS of people of the world, the arabs, must be dragged from their self
    imposed stupidity"?

    That's the mission "fucktard" Americans - most of whom are at least too bright to believe the utter nonsense of WMD shuttled to Syria - have had quite enough of, thanks.

    We can't leave because - why? Because due to our efforts the ME has become something other than a running sore of nursed grievance and bloody violence, something other than a collection of "inbred retarded peoples" wasting our time, effort, and treasure for years on end?

    One giant "gaza shithole" don't bother me none. Grand social engineering projects that engage the military without hope or promise of end, do.

    Seeing as how we're not leaving, however, one would think you have little cause for such high dudgeon. The expression of a little genuine satisfaction might be in order, hm?

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  77. You just reminded me of those incredibly high inbred rates. I read them a month ago or so...
    Well into the range of causing REAL, SERIOUS Problems, but to deformed in rebirth W, all people are the same, just as family values don't stop at the border.
    They DO for the Mexican Govt, of course, but what's that to the differently-abled from rebirth George.
    Tain't nuthin, compared to bringing De mock ra cy to the whole damned ME.
    Whatta Guy!!

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  78. Son just met a guy that was at Omaha Beach and some other storied and bloody battle.
    The guy with the Brownings and all the rest of that firepower is a 'Nam Vet.

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  79. Yeah, Rufus, Maui Electric was planning on a Humongous (maybe worlld's biggest) plant running on IMPORTED PALM OIL!
    This on an Island once almost ALL Covered w/sugar cane and even now about half covered!
    The company they're talking about has never even done it before!
    The local Biodiesel guy says we ought to have smaller, diversified plants, which seems like a better way to go.

    How we gonna teach 'Rat his millions from his Billions?
    Hell, if I couldn't count to a Billion, I couldn't figure how rich I am.

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  81. How come nobody's given me my high-five for outing aenea?

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