Former ambassador to the U.N., John Bolton, says the the latest intelligence estimate is meant not to inform but to influence policy.
When President Bush and the Republicans controlled the entire US Government, they had a chance to reform US Intelligence. They did not do that. They frittered away an opportunity. The consequences of that unfortunate decision are now being realized.
It is ironic that President Bush decided to change the Iraqi government with a dogged determination, but lost his enthusiasm to tidy things up in his own. The Democrat's Pavlovian response to the destroyed interrogation tapes will further distract any serious review of the role of US Intelligence in the governance of The United States of America.
_________________
Bolton calls report on Iran 'quasi-putsch'From Reuters
December 9, 2007
BERLIN — U.S. intelligence services attempted to influence political policy by releasing their assessment that concludes Iran halted its nuclear arms program in 2003, said John Bolton, former U.S. ambassador to the United Nations.
Der Spiegel magazine quoted Bolton on Saturday as alleging that the aim of the National Intelligence Estimate, which contradicts his and President Bush's position, was not to provide the latest intelligence on Iran.
"This is politics disguised as intelligence," Bolton was quoted as saying in an article appearing in this week's edition.
Bolton described the report, released Monday, as a "quasi-putsch" by the intelligence agencies, Der Spiegel said.
The intelligence estimate said Iran had stopped its nuclear weapons program four years ago but was continuing to develop the technical means that could be used to produce a bomb. This contradicted Bush's assertion that Iran was actively trying to develop a nuclear weapon.
The hawkish Bolton has long criticized Mohamed ElBaradei, head of the Vienna-based International Atomic Energy Agency, who has said that there was no hard evidence that Tehran was pursuing nuclear weapons.
ElBaradei said the report "somewhat vindicated" Iran, which has denied allegations that it was secretly trying to build nuclear weapons. It says its nuclear program is to generate electricity.
A Political Coup in Washington.
ReplyDeleteA Coup, or A Putsch?
...great minds
From wsj link above
ReplyDelete"To some extent Sherman is setting up a straw man. One would think the "let's-bomb-them-now approach" would entail actually bombing them, which of course the U.S. has not done.
And to the extent that the NIE undercuts the credibility of the threat of military force, it reduces American leverage over Iran (and over our own allies) and thereby diminishes rather than enhances the prospects for diplomatic success.
If indeed Iran stopped its nuclear-weapons program in 2003, is it a coincidence that this was the same year America made good on its threat of military force against Saddam Hussein's Iraq?"
---
There was immediate blowback all around, from the Dems to the Chicoms.
...but I grow tired of complaints of calumny of the Bush Administration.
His style, almost all his days as POTUS, is to bend over and say,
"Have at it!"
...but it is so constant, that those in the know know that it's what he wanted all along, from monumental increases in spending for the FEDERAL Dept of "Education," to monumental increased FEDERAL Spending ON "education," to record new FEDERAL Spending on Drug benefits, to record high illegal immigration AFTER 9-11, as he relaxed every FEDERAL Check on same he could get away with.
Now he seems pleased with himself, in that his one Trillion Dollar Federal expenditure in his cool new idea for democracy in Iraq hss shown some improvement from it's bedrock disaster status a few months ago.
Carry on George, carry on Karen Hughes: Wine and Dine and Indulge those who want to kill US, as W the Elite little rich boy carries on in the manner to which he has become well-accustomed.
A genuine "compassionate" "conservative."
the ball has been passed in public....
ReplyDeleteisrael now faces a hostile middle east...
(nothing new)
israel now faces a threat of genocide
(nothing new)
Iran, lebanon, syria, hamas, the palestinians & hezbollah are rearmed and waiting for the chance to smash israel and destroy the zionist entity/little satan
(nothing new)
europe and russia sit by and hope israel will be destroyed so that the arab world will be made happy and all the world can have peace (withut the jews messing it up)
(nothing new)
let's not forget during this time the arabians, egyptians & company have not stopped funding & supplying hamas with tons of weapons and cash
(nothing new)
nope, nothing new under the sun...
OH yes there is...
it's called the IDF
and no matter if the entire world agrees, that the solution to all it's problems would be the simple erasing of the error of history in allowing jews to be, the jews will not stand by and allow it...
sorry to be a party pooper, i choose not to be murdered.....
Iran 'hoodwinked' CIA over nuclear plans
ReplyDeleteBy Tim Shipman in Washington, Philip Sherwell and Carolynne Wheeler, Telegraph
Last Updated: 1:39am GMT 09/12/2007
British spy chiefs have grave doubts that Iran has mothballed its nuclear weapons programme, as a US intelligence report claimed last week, and believe the CIA has been hoodwinked by Teheran.
Analysts believe that Iranian staff, knowing their phones were tapped, deliberately gave misinformation
The timing of the CIA report has also provoked fury in the British Government, where officials believe it has undermined efforts to impose tough new sanctions on Iran and made an Israeli attack on its nuclear facilities more likely.
The security services in London want concrete evidence to allay concerns that the Islamic state has fed disinformation to the CIA.
The report used new evidence - including human sources, wireless intercepts and evidence from an Iranian defector - to conclude that Teheran suspended the bomb-making side of its nuclear programme in 2003. But British intelligence is concerned that US spy chiefs were so determined to avoid giving President Bush a reason to go to war - as their reports on Saddam Hussein's weapons programmes did in Iraq - that they got it wrong this time.
A senior British official delivered a withering assessment of US intelligence-gathering abilities in the Middle East and revealed that British spies shared the concerns of Israeli defence chiefs that Iran was still pursuing nuclear weapons.
The source said British analysts believed that Iranian nuclear staff, knowing their phones were tapped, deliberately gave misinformation. "We are sceptical. We want to know what the basis of it is, where did it come from? Was it on the basis of the defector? Was it on the basis of the intercept material? They say things on the phone because they know we are up on the phones. They say black is white. They will say anything to throw us off.
"It's not as if the American intelligence agencies are regarded as brilliant performers in that region. They got badly burned over Iraq."
A US intelligence source has revealed that some American spies share the concerns of the British and the Israelis. "Many middle- ranking CIA veterans believe Iran is still committed to producing nuclear weapons and are concerned that the agency lost a number of its best sources in Iran in 2004," the official said.
The Foreign Office is studying a new text of a third United Nations Security Council resolution that would impose tough travel bans on regime figures and penalise banks that do business with Iran.
But diplomats say the chances of winning Chinese and Russian support for the move are in freefall. A Western diplomat said: "It's created a lot of difficulties because of the timing, just as we were about to go for a third resolution."
Bruce Reidel, who spent 25 years on the Middle East desks at the CIA and the National Security Council, said: "By going public they have embarrassed our friends, particularly the British and the Israelis. They have given our foes insights into our most secret intelligence and taken most of the options off the table."
Ephraim Sneh, until recently Israel's deputy minister of defence, warned that military action would be the only option if the world community did not institute robust sanctions. "No one can rule out with high confidence that somewhere in Iran, 70 times the size of Israel, there is one lab working on the weapons programme," Mr Sneh told The Sunday Telegraph.
"[Military action] is not a desired option; it is a last resort. That's why sanctions are so important. We have to urge the international community to be serious about sanctions and to take necessary measures to defend the civilian population."
There is joy and celebration in the streets.
ReplyDeleteGeorge Bush and the Evil Neo-Cons have been setback in their quest for world dominance.
Madness.
Lefties, including our own resident one, have been so worried that Bush and Cheney were going to bomb the Iranians that they found a way to stop him or at least make it very difficult for the "jack booted thugs currently occupying the White House to carry out their devious plots."
ReplyDeleteThe world has been made a safer place and the hands on the Armageddon clock have been turned back.
Who did it? Who is Deep Throat Redux?
ReplyDeleteDid the CIA leak the news of the tape trashing to deflect attention from the NIE report?
ReplyDeleteThe NIE actually changes nothing.
ReplyDeleteWe weren't going to "Bomb, bomb, bomb. Bomb Iran", anyway. We, along with the rest of the world, were only going to jaw, jaw, jaw.
If these reports of "hyper-partisan, anti-Bush administration" NIE authors are true, this once agains raises very serious questions about who is actually running the US government. We've known for quite some time that the State Department operated by its own rules and according to its own agenda. We've also known that the intelligence agencies were more partisan and ideologically driven than they should be. Unfortunately, the Bush Administration seemed to make half-hearted attempts to clean them up.
Time to read Kenneth Timmerman's book "The Shadow
Warriers" which is about the politization of our intelligence community and the State Department.
Go to Amazon.com and read the reviews for Timmermans book:
ReplyDeleteShadow Warriors: The Untold Story of Traitors, Saboteurs, and the Party of Surrender
Here's one:
By CIA Analyst "CIA Analyst" (Washington, DC) - See all my reviews
A must read for anyone interested in U.S. national security.
Kenneth Timmerman has accomplished what few "outsiders" -- people who have not worked in government -- have done: written a definitive account of the internal workings of the U.S. national security apparatus. His account is not just limited to the State Department. It also includes inside accounts of developments within the CIA as well as many complex foreign developments.
The story Timmerman tells is depressing. He describes how government bureaucrats took steps again and again to sabotage Bush Administration foreign policy initiatives. Timmerman portrays many government bureaucrats as a shadowy permanent and unaccountable government pursuing their own foreign policy.
This did not just go on at the Department of State, which is fairly well known for having a strong political bias but also at the CIA. Timmerman discusses what really went on with CIA Director Porter Goss and the extensive efforts CIA careerists took to prevent him from reforming the Agency by smearing him and his staff. Timmerman is careful to point out that this effort would not have succeeded if Goss had the full backing of then National Security Adviser Rice. Unfortunately, Rice did not want any bad press coming out of Langley.
Timmerman also gives a very good account of the 2005 Senate battle to confirm John Bolton as UN ambassador. Timmerman reaches deep down and discusses not just actions by CIA and State Department officers to derail Bolton but how this battle was affected by the fact that many of these officials laregly opposed Bolton because they objected to his criticism of Fidel Castro and concerns Bolton raised about Ana Belen Montes, a former DIA Cuba expert who was convicted of spying for Cuba. This well-argued account puts the Bolton confirmation battle in a very different light.
As we approach the end of the Bush Administration, it is time to take stock of its accomplishments and failings. Kenneth Timmerman reveals some of the internal obstacles that had a significant impact on the ability of Bush officials to carry out their policies. This is a serious problem that the next president must be prepared to address.
What I want to know is that if the bulk of the sixteen Intelligence organizations are DoD what part did they play in this NIE? Do they agree with the consensus? Are they a part of the putsch?
ReplyDeleteWhere's Trish?
Whit: We've known for quite some time that the State Department operated by its own rules and according to its own agenda. We've also known that the intelligence agencies were more partisan and ideologically driven than they should be.
ReplyDeleteRefresh my memory. Who was it that cherry-picked the intel to get us into a war with a country that had no WMDs, no nuclear weapons program, and nothing to do with 9-11, and whose only sin was that it was a four-letter country starting with the letter "I" sitting on a bunch of oil?
WIO: Iran, lebanon, syria, hamas, the palestinians & hezbollah are rearmed and waiting for the chance to smash israel and destroy the zionist entity/little satan
ReplyDeleteIsrael has always faced armed Arabs. The important thing we learned this week is that they won't be armed with nuclear weapons from Iran.
I sick of hearing that crap T, you know darn well that info was not cherry picked. Go back to the context of the days post 9/11 when we had been told for years (even by Bill Clinton and Al Gore) that Saddam was a threat. Everybody thought Saddam had WMD and was working on a nuclear program. Geez, that's what the idiot wanted everyone to believe.
ReplyDeleteIf you insist on pedaling that kind of BS take it to Daily Kos where you will find a more receptive audience.
Stuff it!
Whit, take my name of your website, I'm turning in my Oak Leaf Cluster.
ReplyDeleteBTW:
ReplyDeleteI found your founding father quotes on the ChurchofSatan.org website. Is that where you found them?
Great, turn it in.
ReplyDeleteDeuce: Did the CIA leak the news of the tape trashing to deflect attention from the NIE report?
ReplyDeleteNo, they did it to enhance the credibility of the NIE. People will go, "Wow, finally the CIA is coming clean about their dirty past, that must mean they are being honest about their product finally. Gosh, that must be why Cheney tried to squash it."
Doug: Now he seems pleased with himself, in that his one Trillion Dollar Federal expenditure in his cool new idea for democracy in Iraq hss shown some improvement from it's bedrock disaster status a few months ago.
ReplyDeleteYou at least have to grant the Democrats this: They'll still spend a trillion dollars, but at least they'll spend it on things like roads and schools and bridges here in America instead of giving it to militias in Iraq in exchange for not bombing or torturing anybody this month.
whit: I found your founding father quotes on the ChurchofSatan.org website. Is that where you found them?
ReplyDeleteEarlier this year you and Deuce were kind enough to give me admin priveleges so I could initiate posts on the EB, despite my...er...centrist views, but I wasn't ready for prime time and I stepped down. Since that time I've learned more about blogging, but now that I pissed off one of the proprietors & barkeeps I see that my hope to get into the inner circle again is dashed forever.
So please, whit, take my name OFF the sidebar of the blog and then I'll leave.
I think we can disagree and have occasional words without the world coming to an end.
ReplyDeleteWIO: europe and russia sit by and hope israel will be destroyed so that the arab world will be made happy and all the world can have peace (withut the jews messing it up)
ReplyDeleteLook at this map of the Middle East. You can see that Israel has to fly over Jordan and Iraq to reach Iran. They can possibly get across Jordan without getting shot down, but not over Iraq. It will require overflight permission from USCENTCOM, which means the US would be complicit in the attack. Additionally, the Israeli F-16s do not have the range to reach Iran without aerial refueling, again with US complicity. The NIE makes it impossible for the US to initiate a bombing campaign on Iran at this time, and any Israeli air attack would be laid at the US feet as well, with a great deal of negative blowback in world opinion because Bush refuses to even meet with Iranians to talk.
The only option is for Israel to nuke Iran, because conventionally armed rockets do not have the capability to penetrate bunkers. If Israel does THAT all bets are off.
Whit: I think we can disagree and have occasional words without the world coming to an end.
ReplyDeletePlease take my name OFF the blog.
Teresita wrote:
ReplyDeleteIsrael has always faced armed Arabs. The important thing we learned this week is that they won't be armed with nuclear weapons from Iran.
That might be the New York Times spin, but the report actually said something quite different.
1) Iran used to have a covert nuclear weapons program -- something which Iran has always denied. (ie, Report implies Iran lies).
2) Iran probably suspended its nuclear weapons program in 2003.
3) Iran may or may not have subsequently restarted its nuclear weapons program.
4) Iran definitely continues to enrich uranium, which is the single most important part of a bomb program.
5) The report does not discuss the possibility that Iran could covertly be working on a separate plutonium bomb program (a la North Korea) -- although the report does mention that Iran has not cooperated with the IAEA.
Based on that NIE report, no-one should be surprised if Hamas shows up soon with a nuclear weapon stamped "Made in Iran".
I'll leave it to Deuce, T. Take it up with him.
ReplyDeleteGreat! Now we can make My Name, Bigger. Maybe some Flashing Lights, an Avatar? A brief Bio?
ReplyDeleteOh, Boy! Life is GOOD!
T, we all enjoy your comments. Don't be an Oversensitive Dildo.
Kinuachdrach: 1) Iran used to have a covert nuclear weapons program -- something which Iran has always denied. (ie, Report implies Iran lies).
ReplyDeleteThank God we have intelligence agencies smart enough not to take Iran's statements at face value and actually put HUMINT resouces into Iran to see what's going on firsthand.
2) Iran probably suspended its nuclear weapons program in 2003.
Fall of 2003, after they saw the US cut through the Iraqi regime like a hot knife through butter.
3) Iran may or may not have subsequently restarted its nuclear weapons program.
Actually the NIE says, "We assess with moderate confidence Tehran had not restarted its nuclear weapons program as of mid-2007"
4) Iran definitely continues to enrich uranium, which is the single most important part of a bomb program.
Iran is signatory to the NPT which authorizes them to enrich uranium for nuclear power.
5) The report does not discuss the possibility that Iran could covertly be working on a separate plutonium bomb program (a la North Korea) -- although the report does mention that Iran has not cooperated with the IAEA.
Non-cooperation with the IAEA does not, in itself, constitute a preach of article I or II of the NPT which would preclude their enrichment authorization under article IV.
Based on that NIE report, no-one should be surprised if Hamas shows up soon with a nuclear weapon stamped "Made in Iran".
That would be suicide for Iran. Since Hamas is the puppet of Iran, all their weapons are furnished by Iran. If Hamas attacks Israel with any form of WMD, Israel will hold Iran accountable.
It is a myth that Israel is a "one bomb" state. A fission bomb on the order a ten kilotons is great for wiping out a city's downtown core, or a city made of paper and bamboo, but no one envisions Iran making a true city-killer in the form of a thermonuclear fusion bomb, which uses an A-bomb just as the trigger.
B. We continue to assess with low confidence that Iran probably has imported at least some weapons-usable fissile material, but still judge with moderate-to-high confidence it has not obtained enough for a nuclear weapon.
ReplyDeleteWe cannot rule out that Iran has acquired from abroad�or will acquire in the future�a nuclear weapon or enough fissile material
for a weapon. Barring such acquisitions, if Iran wants to have nuclear weapons it would need to produce sufficient amounts of fissile material indigenously� which we judge with high confidence it has not yet done.
The Iranians may just buy the stuff from the Pakistani, where they bought the knowledge, or the NorKs.
So, with the US stating:
... our judgment, only an Iranian political decision to abandon a nuclear weapons objective would plausibly keep Iran from eventually producing nuclear weapons�and such a decision is inherently reversible.
Same as in South Africa.
Once the knowledge is obtained, even if the centrifuges were desroyed, the genee cannot be put back in the bottle.
War or diplomacy, those are the options. The US is not going to war with Iran, especially now.
Again the US tells the world:
... cannot rule out that Iran has acquired from abroad�or will acquire in the future�a nuclear weapon or enough fissile material for a weapon.
So even if the civilian centrifuges were destroyed, the threat would remain. Perhaps even be accelerated.
F. We assess with moderate confidence that Iran probably would use covert facilities� rather than its declared nuclear sites�for the production of highly enriched uranium for a weapon.
War or diplomacy, and the US is not going to war, under Mr Bush, in a new theater.
This NIE maintains the EU's primacy in the negotiations, but takes away the US's "cowboy" threat.
To stop the mullahs, 100%, some one has to remove the mullahs from power, in Iran.
As has been the case from the get go.
Ah well...
whit: I'll leave it to Deuce, T. Take it up with him.
ReplyDeleteI don't have a problem with Deuce. I asked you to remove my name so I can leave this place in an orderly fashion. You won't accommodate my request. Very well, I can't force you to do it. That just means I'll leave with that much more acrimony.
Rufus: T, we all enjoy your comments. Don't be an Oversensitive Dildo.
Laugh it up, Petroboy. I'm moving operations over to the Belmont Club. At least Wretchard won't tell me to stuff it and imply I'm in cahoots with Old Nick, aka Diablo, Beelzebub, Lucifer, Satanm, Belial, the Horned One, Abaddon Prince of Darkness.
I, for one, think all NIEs ought to cleared through AEI before publication. Don't you?
ReplyDeleteYeah, yeah
ReplyDeleteAs soon as you make one more comment; Right?
Have a drink, Kid; It's just a bar.
Dr. Bill was on the subject last night, filling in for the indicted Bernie Ward, and got on the subject.
ReplyDeleteAny moderate sized city in the world has machine shops with tools, these days, capable of making a cannon type nuclear device. All you need is the U235. And that's what they are doing. Said when they were in the Nevada desert years and years ago, some of them over coffee wondered if they could find the tools in then down sized Las Vegas to put one together. So they called around, in a week they found the necessary tools. It's a fools errand, this NIE. It's not an intelligence report, it's a political report. Has said it over and over again. But most everybody here realizes that. Enriched U235, any group of terrorist worth their salt can put it together, and that's what will happen, Bill says.
Oh, hell, let's just cut to the chase and hand the whole kit 'n kaboodle over to Bolton. Save money, anyway.
ReplyDeleteWe'd be better off for it, in the long run. Good old Bill didn't forget to mention, MAD isn't going to work with these folks, but I forgot to mention that he mentioned that, before.
ReplyDeleteI wish we didn't always have peoples always threatening to leave in a big huffff around here. So we got different opinions...
ReplyDeleteThis Sunday morning, the EB has has visitors from all over the world. Mostly coming to see Deuce's posts with Britney's exposure. I don't where they got the tip that we had the photo...We'll probably be banned in Boston.
ReplyDeleteThis place would be a real bore if it turned into an echo chamber. I enjoy solving problems and all points of view are welcome. There is no one here who I want to leave. I tried firing myself a couple of times and that didn't work either.
ReplyDeleteI do prefer to attack the idea and not the person. An intellectual challenge is more interesting to the other readers. Personal attacks ruined Kudlow's blog and that to me is a loss.
Be nice.
All in the quest for for knowledge of the human condition, Whit.
ReplyDeleteDeuce, now that you're back I'm going to ask this one more time. Please remove my name from the sidebar.
ReplyDeleteT, take a day to reconsider. I do not want you to go, but if after a day you insist, I will.
ReplyDeleteIs one of those girls Britney Spears? I'm a little slow on such subjects. If so, please tell ol bob which one? Just for my research project, so to speak.
ReplyDeleteThen to hell with the whole shooting match.
ReplyDeleteBob, Britney is the girl who is winking at you.
ReplyDeleteBob says, calm down, please, Ms. T. I was the guy nominated you for Oak Leaf. I was the guy said, Hooray!
ReplyDeleteThey all seem to be winking at me, in a way.
ReplyDeleteBreaking News:
ReplyDeleteQueens area Restaurant plundered by Turks.
The Foreign Office is studying a new text of a third United Nations Security Council resolution that would impose tough travel bans on regime figures and penalise banks that do business with Iran.
ReplyDeleteowieee, that's going hurt. No wonder Ahmadinajad is in such a smiling mood.
The Turk was obviously after those halal square hamburgers, Whit.
ReplyDeleteThe management could take the tack that once Oak Leaf, always Oak Leaf, like in the CIA, they say.
ReplyDeletebob,
ReplyDeletewhat was alderman williams talking about on the last thread?
From this valley, they say you are going...
ReplyDeleteLike in islam.
ReplyDeleteI'm going too. Time to take the buckboard in to the general (walmart) store for some provisions. back later.
ReplyDeleteNear as I can make out, Whit, I think he's describing the behavior of dead fish, and is politely suggesting we shouldn't behave that way.
ReplyDeleteThe thing is, T and I share certain culinary tastes. We both have a fondness for p .....; Ah, you get the point:)
ReplyDeleteWith all due respect, you've said enough insulting and inflammatory things yourself, Teresita. As most of us have. It is not that big of a deal.
ReplyDeleteBut whatever.
ReplyDeleteShe will cool down. let it rest.
ReplyDeleteKick her outta here!
ReplyDeleteFirst order of business, no whinny wymens on da'Island.
And, I'm way overdue for a promotion!
teresita said...
ReplyDeleteWIO: Iran, lebanon, syria, hamas, the palestinians & hezbollah are rearmed and waiting for the chance to smash israel and destroy the zionist entity/little satan
Israel has always faced armed Arabs. The important thing we learned this week is that they won't be armed with nuclear weapons from Iran.
I do not trust iran, inspectors have never had complete access to many site, the iranians have not come clean about the past programs.
to build a nuke it takes 3 parts:
the missile
the enriched uranium
the mechanical parts
the missile is hard, but iran already has shown the world it has missiles to do the job
the enriched uranium, iran already is enriching it, and who KNOWS it Knor hasnt already sold them some...
the warhead, takes 6 weeks to make, and THIS is what supposedly was stopped a few years ago...
so, your assurances are great but mean less than promises of cease fires by hamas...
so, we MUST assume Iran has a bomb...
and act accordingly
Yeh, I always wanted to be a Genrul, m'damn self.
ReplyDeleteReid, Pelosi, Harman, Rockefeller, et al knew about waterboarding in 2002.
ReplyDeleteGateway Pundit.
HEY, if all these people are all ranked, why aint i a private with poison ivy cluster?
ReplyDeletejust saying.....................
I've always thought being a civilian was the best position to have, in the military.
ReplyDeleteHas Mr Bush lost control of the DoD and it's eight Intel services?
This fellow JIM HOAGLAND says:
Bush is to blame for collapse of presidential authority
That his and Mr Cheney's efforts to strengthen the Executive have backfired, in the extreme.
:)
ReplyDeleteHere changing the subject, starlight whittles away at the Eagle's Nebula. It's hard for me to grasp that starlight is a kind of wind, sorta, but it is, they say.
"What I want to know is that if the bulk of the sixteen Intelligence organizations are DoD what part did they play in this NIE? Do they agree with the consensus? Are they a part of the putsch?"
ReplyDeleteA part of the wha...?
That's a loaded question if ever there was. And btw, when did you stop beating your wife?
This is the trouble one gets into declassifying NIE summaries - hell, even having the public aware if their existence. Know what's gonna happen now? The intel policy advisory function will find a different avenue, while keeping the NIE as a public, ruffle-the-least feathers, draw-the-least-fire product.
Bolton, et al, is whining: Somebody swiped my war with Iran, dammit!
Bah humbug. (And that's what Maples would say: Bah humbug.)
Good old Max Boot reminds US just how ineffectual and out gunned the Iranians are, if US allies really are.
ReplyDelete...According to the International Institute for Strategic Studies in London, the air forces of the Gulf Cooperation Council (Bahrain, Kuwait, Oman, Qatar, Saudi Arabia and the UAE) match up quite favorably with those of the Islamic Republic of Iran.
The GCC states boast 627 combat-capable aircraft vs. only 286 for Iran, and most of the GCC aircraft are much more advanced. The GCC is well-supplied with modern American fighter-bombers--F-15s, F-16s, F-18s--and they are buying more top-of-the-line hardware all the time. Iran, by contrast, is still reliant on F-4s and F-5s acquired by the shah three decades ago, supplemented by a few more modern Russian and Chinese fighters.
...
We take for granted that Israel, a state of 6.4 million people with a GDP of $140 billion, could successfully attack nuclear sites located 1,200 miles away. Yet we ignore the possibility that the GCC states, with a combined population of 39 million and a GDP of $522 billion, could do at least as good of a job, operating from bases located in some cases less than 100 miles from Iran. (Iran's population is 65 million; its GDP $193 billion.)
Perhaps Mr Bush has not lost control of the government, but is taking the Game to the next level.
And a hearty Ho,HO,HO to you all.
ReplyDeleteTime to put the blinking lights outline on my 1960 F600 Ford Truck. The neighborhood kids like it. Even have lights going up the CB radio antenna! Wheels seem to turn!
We should retain our optimisum, the US is not DOOMED.
ReplyDeleteEspecially due to the actions of Iranian mullahs.
This comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteThe realities of world politics makes Israeli strikes against Iran problematic, but Saudi can do what ever they want.
ReplyDeleteIf the Iranians are a real threat to world peace and stability
Oil. That's the only problematic factor. So, the question to ask is, it is more problematic getting this oil from the Jihadis or from the Russians.
ReplyDeleteWe're going to lose a City one of these days; and, then, it will all get a whole lot easier.
ReplyDeleteWho is "we", rufus?
ReplyDeleteWho is going to do it?
How will they get 'er done?
Or are you just stoking the fires of fear?
ReplyDeleteHell, I don't know "Who," Rat. If I did I'd go shoot'em.
ReplyDeleteBut, you know damned well that you can't have that many crazy people with Nukes without somebody, somewhere, getting the wherewithal, and opportunity to take out one of our Metropolis'.
The White House has announced Osama impotent, so he has to be considered no threat.
ReplyDeleteLimp as he is.
The Iranians do not have a missile that can reach the Bosphorus, let alone the radar sites in eastern Europe.
The NorKs best missile can't reach an altitude of 1,000 feet.
The Pakistani, our best ally in the war on terror?
They don't have an ICBM, either.
How about the Indians, they can reach orbit with their rockets, are they going to destroy a US city?
Trying to "stoke the fires" of fear among this likkered-up bunch? Sheesh.
ReplyDeleteI'd rather try to start a "Mexicans for Tancredo" PAC.
ReplyDeleteHow would they get it here?
ReplyDeleteelijah reported that we have radiation detectors in orbit, so any ship on the seas can be scanned before it is in range of an effective launch.
Israel might lose a city, but they are not "we". If the Israeli did lose one, the response would be overwhelming.
"Muzzies for Marc" Steyn would be easier.
ReplyDeleteRadiation Detectors in Orbit?
ReplyDeleteHhmmnh
I hope he's right.
"Refresh my memory. Who was it that cherry-picked the intel to get us into a war with a country that had no WMDs, no nuclear weapons program, and nothing to do with 9-11, and whose only sin was that it was a four-letter country starting with the letter "I" sitting on a bunch of oil?"
ReplyDelete---
As everyone here knows, I am no apologist for the Wuss Bush, but it is SO tiresome to read you repeat LEFT WING LIES about what has gone on the last six years from the above to your hero truthellers, the Wilsons.
Perhaps all that effort you put into promoting your Homosexuality (now what, Bi?) could have been better spent informing yourself.
THEY DID NOT CHERRY PICK THE INTEL, THE INTEL WAS FLAWED, FATALLY!
...but what else is new for the KGB, er ...CIA?
Doesn't ICBM stand for "INTERCONTINENTAL?"
ReplyDeleteSo you are wrong, my friend, as the Pakis have missiles that can reach out and touch the continent of Africa!
Perhaps even the
"European Continent"
...although we all know it's really just one Eurabian Continent.
Aloha Akbar!
I reply for Rufus:
ReplyDeleteNo, they have no missiles that are a direct threat to us, but otoh, Al Q didn't have an intercontinental bomber force, now did they?
Yet three rather large bombs reached their targets.
...but fear not, the CIA has the oceans of the World Covered, and even knew about that tunnel yard away from our Cop Shop on the border.
They just didn't want to give up sources and methods.
...although they informant on the Mexican side is sadly no longer with us.
Make Barges, not Bombs!
Also Love, not War!
"yards away"
ReplyDeletejust like Bombs Away!
...after they transit the tunnel.
While the gamma radiation produced by plutonium could be shielded if it were encased in lead, PUMA can still detect its neutron radiation.
ReplyDelete"We want to look for anything radioactive," Seymour said. "But if the neutron detector goes off, you're going to want to look particularly hard (at the source)."
This article is way out of date, but interesting. Lead casing won't stop neutrons, it says.
Radiation detectors in space? I'm with Rufus, hmm I hope it's so and would work.
In my search for the source of T's upset, I came across this:
ReplyDelete"The reason given, by the CIA, for burning the tapes was farcical."
- Rat
Not at all.
And were it up to me, I'd destroy every damn thing. Better yet, there'd be nothing to destroy. I wouldn't even take notes. I'd leave not a scrap for the vultures.
What interrogation?
Not bombers, doug. civilian aircraft, hijacked and used as large cruise missiles.
ReplyDeleteBut not capable of "taking out a city".
Shaheen-II Hatf-6 PRC M-18 2,000km range/1,200 miles tested 09 March 2004
1,200 miles, that's a bit short of Africa. Short of Israel, too.
Scroll down at this site and see the map.
The NorKs are reported to have a:
The Taep'o-dong-2 (TD-2) is said to be a two or three stage missile with a range estimated at approximately 3,650-3,750 km with a 700-1,000 kg payload.
It has never been successfully tested, when it was fired, didn't reach 1,000 ft, let alone 3,650 km.
If we can't trust the agencies of the US government, who can we trust?
I do not disagree with that, trish. But that's not the course that was taken.
ReplyDeleteWe were told the tapes were destroyed to protect the identities of the innocent, which is farcical.
You might consider Atomic City, Idaho when mulling over your retirement plans. There is no lack of 'hot spots' in the area for entertainment in your 'golden years.'
ReplyDeleteOoooh, I think sources and methods ought to be free for the filching, don't you, Doug?
ReplyDeletePopulation, 25, at last count, so you won't have that boxed in, hassled feeling. And the stars are magnificent at night.
ReplyDeleteTrish,
ReplyDeleteAs Dennis Miller would say, "I like the cut of your gib."
Hey, Rat!
ReplyDeleteJust because the stupid map does not include Africa does not mean Africa does not exist.
Check out a REAL Map and extend that outer Circle Over Africa!
http://www.mapsofworld.com/images/world-continents-map.gif
Seems the CIA, NYTimes, and Dems is who you should address about that Trish.
ReplyDeleteOr our Buddies the Wilsons.
While nobody does a damned thing in Atomic City, Job Opportunities abound in the outlying areas, in case you need a little supplemental income, after surgery or whatever.
ReplyDelete(the Westernmost tip of Pakistan to the Easternmost tip of Somalia!)
ReplyDelete"And were it up to me, I'd destroy every damn thing. Better yet, there'd be nothing to destroy. I wouldn't even take notes. I'd leave not a scrap for the vultures.
ReplyDeleteWhat interrogation?"
---
Amen!
See how agreeable I can be when you're right?
Rat had some Rose Colored Argument about what a sin that would be.
ReplyDelete...being BS, I can't remember it.
ReplyDelete3) Iran may or may not have subsequently restarted its nuclear weapons program.
ReplyDeleteActually the NIE says, "We assess with moderate confidence Tehran had not restarted its nuclear weapons program as of mid-2007"
One of the many features of the NIE is its use of private language. "Moderate confidence" means something to normal people, but what did the NIE bureaucrats mean?
From the Report: "Moderate confidence generally means that the information is credibly sourced and plausible
but not of sufficient quality or corroborated sufficiently to warrant a higher level of
confidence." Well, that really does not answer the question, does it?
If we look to the NIE Report for more guidance on estimates of likelihood, the Report says: "Terms such as probably, likely, very likely, or almost certainly indicate a greater than even chance. The terms unlikely and remote indicate a less then even chance that an event will occur"
All in all, the only reasonable interpretation of the NIE private language on "moderate confidence" is that it means around a 50/50 chance. Maybe the Iranian nuclear program has been restarted, maybe not. But we all knew that anyway, didn't we?
Didn't the date 2010 come up somewhere?
ReplyDeleteAs if that's so far in the future it'll never come!
Two years to breath!
Whoop de friggin do!
What would Bubba do if he had No-Dong?
ReplyDelete(buy one from the Norks)
It does not makes sense for a country to test its first and only weapon when it has none in reserve to deter attacks. So the first test is not likely before two years from now or late 2009.
ReplyDeleteWhat will Iranian behavior be after the first test? All countries, with the exception of India, that have developed their own nuclear weapon, have transferred that technology to other countries. The technology, not a weapon, is easy to transfer in a way that can be concealed, has high value, and can be traded for money or other goods. So Iran will transfer technology to its friends. Nuclear weapons can be used to intimidate non-nuclear countries, and new nuclear powers, including the United States, have overestimated the utility of such threats. The goal of Iran is to force the military departure of the US from the Persian Gulf. US military bases in the region are now in small Gulf states and Iraq. The prediction is that the Iranians will use nuclear carrots and sticks to induce Gulf states to ask the United States to withdraw from their current bases, sometime after 2009.
from Middle East Strategy at Harvard, which I linked to yesterday
Times DO Change!
ReplyDelete---
Dems knew about waterboarding in 2002...
Hill Briefed on Waterboarding in 2002
In Meetings, Spy Panels' Chiefs Did Not Protest, Officials Say
In September 2002, four members of Congress met in secret for a first look at a unique CIA program designed to wring vital information from reticent terrorism suspects in U.S. custody. For more than an hour, the bipartisan group, which included current House Speaker Nancy Pelosi (D-Calif.), was given a virtual tour of the CIA's overseas detention sites and the harsh techniques interrogators had devised to try to make their prisoners talk.
Among the techniques described, said two officials present, was waterboarding, a practice that years later would be condemned as torture by Democrats and some Republicans on Capitol Hill. But on that day, no objections were raised. Instead, at least two lawmakers in the room asked the CIA to push harder, two U.S. officials said.
Several officials familiar with the briefings also recalled that the meetings were marked by an atmosphere of deep concern about the possibility of an imminent terrorist attack.
ReplyDelete"In fairness, the environment was different then because we were closer to Sept. 11 and people were still in a panic," said one U.S. official present during the early briefings. "But there was no objecting, no hand-wringing. The attitude was, 'We don't care what you do to those guys as long as you get the information you need to protect the American people.' "
Only after information about the practice began to leak in news accounts in 2005 -- by which time the CIA had already abandoned waterboarding -- did doubts about its legality among individual lawmakers evolve into more widespread dissent. The opposition reached a boiling point this past October, when Democratic lawmakers condemned the practice during Michael B. Mukasey's confirmation hearings for attorney general.
---
My, my my:
Every day can bring a whole new World!
I useta be scart, but I ain't scart of nuthin but Bushhitler, now!
ReplyDelete5th Column on the March:---
ReplyDeleteBiden Wants Special Counsel in Tape Case
CIA, Justice Review of Destroyed Tapes
The Torture Tapes
Bush Does Not Recall Learning of Destroyed CIA Tapes
Meanwhile, in Hamastan, a major drug bust takes place. "We will not show mercy to anyone involved in the death trade" a spokeman said, without irony.
ReplyDeletePlumes of marijuana-infused smoke rose above Gaza City as dozens of people looked on after Gaza's Hamas rulers announced a major drug bust Sunday, torching large sacks of confiscated drugs in a bonfire.
Hamas displayed tables full of marijuana, neatly pressed blocks of hashish, small piles of cocaine and ecstasy pills at a news conference to show the results of a two-week-long drug raid, said Ihab Ghussain, spokesman for the Interior Ministry.
He said the raid netted 115 arrests of dealers and growers, and more than 200 kilograms of marijuana, 340 blocks of hashish and 2,340 marijuana plants were confiscated.
Ghussain said some of the drugs, valued at $4 million, were smuggled through tunnels into Gaza from Egypt.
"We have closed almost 90 percent of these tunnels," Ghussain said, but did not say how many tunnels the militant group found.
Ghussain blamed the rival Palestinian group Fatah for allowing drugs to flourish in Gaza, and said they collaborated with Israel to destroy the area's youth. "We will not show mercy to anybody involved in the death trade," Ghussain said.
The drugs were later burned in a square, with Hamas police emptying out large bags of marijuana onto a fire, and others tossing in hashish blocs. Police then ordered a crowd of onlookers to step away.
In May 2007, four months after Democrats regained control of Congress and well after the CIA had forsworn further waterboarding, four senators submitted written objections to the CIA's use of that tactic and other, still unspecified "enhanced" techniques in two classified letters to Hayden last spring, shortly after receiving a classified hearing on the topic. One letter was sent on May 1 by Sen. Russell Feingold (D-Wis.). A similar letter was sent May 10 by a bipartisan group of three senators: Dianne Feinstein (D-Calif.), Chuck Hagel (R-Neb.) and Ron Wyden (D-Ore.).
ReplyDeleteIn a rare public statement last month that broached the subject of his classified objections, Feingold complained about administration claims of congressional support, saying that it was "not the case" that lawmakers briefed on the CIA's program "have approved it or consented to it."
---
Feingold, Wyden, and Hagel outta be hung.
...we'll be kinder to the rich lady!
Trish, btw, is on record stating that Waterboarding is not immoral torture.
ReplyDelete...but even that should not be used to save our asses.
The swimmer tells us so, and he outta know, since he's visited nightly by Mary Jo Kopechne's ghost.
We were told the tapes were destroyed to protect the identities of the innocent, which is farcical.
ReplyDeleteSun Dec 09, 03:51:00 PM EST
No, it's not. Protecting *the identties of the interrogators* is of vital importance. (Of this, Trish is intimately aware.) And that's what Hayden was referring to.
Not rosed colored glasses, doug.
ReplyDeleteIt was not I who announced the reasoning behind the destruction of those tapes, nor even their existence.
But once their existence was admitted to, then there you have it. It became a reality.
The terrorists, not being POWs, are entitled to trials, per the Supremes, not me.
Evidence is evidence, to destroy it, prior to trial, cause for a mistrial and release of the miscreant.
Not because of any glasses I happen to be wearing.
An entire series of missteps, seems to me, to have ever admitted to the taping or the interrogations, or even the capture of the miscreants.
Call the Supremes, they set the stage for this fiasco, not me or mine.
But I have sworn to support their decisions, against all enemies foreign and domestic, regardless of my opinion of those decisions.
As did you, amigo.
This comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteWe should be so lucky, that the Pakis nuked Somalia.
ReplyDeleteAcutally Somalia looks a bit far, though the Yemeni island of Socotra seems to be in their effective range.
Could have blacked out their faces, easily.
ReplyDeleteCould erase or distort their images from the tape, no problem.
Could insert Osama & Dr Z, as the interrogators, if it was desired to protect the real interrogators.
Rent the "Game of Death" or "Forrest Gump", that's not even state of the art, now.
Video tape from Israel, not trusted by jurors in US Courts, for just that reason.
ReplyDeleteOr did Tom Hanks really visit with LBJ?
ReplyDeleteThis seems fitting to me somehow.
ReplyDeletei wrote that it would be interesting to know the capabilities of satellites DR
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDelete"elijah reported that we have radiation detectors in orbit, so any ship on the seas can be scanned before it is in range of an effective launch."
ReplyDeleteSetting aside that this is very broad (what kind of ship? do subs count? what kind of weapon? what is the range of an 'effective launch'? would it have to be launched?), I can't see how this is true, barring some Area-51ish fantasy.
Not only do I not think the technology is there, I doubt we'd dedicate dozens of satellites, with analysts to boot, to watching this.
Course, the entire scenario probably belongs more in a novel than reality. But shit happens.
ReplyDelete"Could have blacked out their faces, easily.
ReplyDeleteCould erase or distort their images from the tape, no problem."
And voices, too. Then you've gotten into that whole tampering and altering business - raising more questions of its own. Better by far to destroy. And never mention the tape.
Bobal quoted:
ReplyDeleteIt does not makes sense for a country to test its first and only weapon when it has none in reserve to deter attacks. So the first test is not likely before two years from now or late 2009.
Western intellectuals still seem to have dificulty with the idea -- the Iranians are not us. What looks sensible to a western university type (build several nukes & then more-or-less openly test one) may seem pretty dumb to an Iranian.
First, when they test the weapon, why do they need to be able to take credit? They just want to know it works.
Second, where do they test it? On Iranian soil? Why not on Israeli soil? Or maybe on more accessible European or US soil? Put it in a shipping container and test it anywhere they please.
The more we think we know about how the Iranian regime is going to act, the more surprised we are likely to be.
This is total bullshit:
ReplyDeleteShas minister: Americans' attitude to report reminiscent of Auschwitz
Yitzhak Cohen says during cabinet meeting 'US intelligence report was ordered by someone who wants dialogue with Tehran. Minister Eli Yishai: 'We must not play dumb in the face of the report's findings'
Roni Sofer
Published: 12.09.07, 14:30 / Israel News
"The manner in which the Americans relate to the intelligence report on Iran is similar to the way in which they viewed those reports they received during the Holocaust on railways transporting hundreds of thousands of Jews to their death at Auschwitz," Minister Yitzhak Cohen of Shas said during a security cabinet meeting Sunday morning on the Iranian nuclear issue.
There is obviously no monopoly on stupid politicians.
ReplyDeleteno Trish, it is better to act in a manner in which you are not ashamed and the videos can support you in that.
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDelete2164th said...
ReplyDeleteThis is total bullshit:
Shas minister: Americans' attitude to report reminiscent of Auschwitz
your right to have a differing opinion, from my pov, dead on...
the usa had PLENTY of intel about the camps and choose to do nothing...
the usa could have PREVENTED the 1967 war (and living up to our treaty obligations) by sailing a ship up the strait of titran but choose to ignore thus causing nasser to do the wonderful things he did that caused the 67 war...
iran is real threat to cause genocide in a nanosecond. as one of the people whose group would be once again attacked I can only tell you we take this very seriously...
how many times have the jewish people heard this type of statement (as in iran's wipe you off the face of the earth) and watched those words turn into action?
so many times and by so many peoples that we KNOW its real...
please dont be surprised when you lose NYC or London to these killers... oh that's right they already have attempted how many times?
Maximum effective range, cutler, is about 1,200 miles. From a surface ship made capable of firing the Shaheen-II Hatf-6.
ReplyDeleteWe can track the Iranian submarines and cargo ships reasonably easily, especially when compared to the Russian fleet at the height of the "Cold War".
That's why we have the largest Navy on the planet.
If tracking loose nukes is to much hassle, or takes to many analysts, why there you go. We'll deserve the results. Results usually correspond to the effort made.
Better we should lose a city, than be prepared to stop a nuclear device weapon in transit.
But if it's not worth the effort, the results will become evident. Especially if the 16 Agencies are wrong, again.
The Iranians are reported to have TWO subs. These can be equipped with cruise missiles:
... fitted with the Novator 3M-54E1 anti-ship missile as part of the Club-S missile system. Range is 220 km with 450 kg high explosive warhead. The vessels are also to be fitted with the Novator 3M-14 Land Attack Cruise Missile, also part of the Club-S system.
220km, that's about 122 miles or so. The Novator 3M-14 Land Attack Cruise Missile has a range of 300km or 180 miles or so.
If the Club-S can be made nuclear capable.
You'd think the entire US Navy could keep track of two Iranian submarines, no?
As to Satellite Surveillance and it's costs, if satellites can be utilized cost effectively to protect fisheries, we can certainly afford to use them to protect the United States from rouge nukes.
Then, speaking more broadly, she added: "But I have to admit he had an extraordinary ability to fool us."
ReplyDeleteFrom Under The Covers Interview
Chavez's ex talks about ex.
no Trish, it is better to act in a manner in which you are not ashamed and the videos can support you in that.
ReplyDeleteSun Dec 09, 07:11:00 PM EST
It was a clandestine operation, ash. No photos. No video. That's the standard. And it is precisely to protect the identities of those operating in such a capacity.
But the powers that be did film it, then admitted to filming it.
ReplyDeleteNow we are taking the miscreants to Court, based upon the results of the interrigations.
Those tapes evidence.
The interragation no longer clandestine but part of the US legal process.
As per the Supremes.
It's a Brave New World.
Get used to it.
So one reading of the referendum's result is that in nine years in power it has been Mr Chávez's signal achievement to turn Venezuela into the only place on the planet nowadays where the American president could win a popular vote.
ReplyDeleteBeginning of the End for Chavez?
The Economist
Also found off South America, the toothfish has evolved anti-freeze components in its blood, making it one of a small number of species to colonise the sub-Antarctic waters of the Southern Ocean, playing an important role in the ecosystem there, providing sustenance to whales and seals.
ReplyDeletefrom Rat's link
Anti-freeze in the blood--makes you wonder what might be found out there in the starry night sky.
Scientists have discovered that the Ice Creatures have evolved an anti-melt protein, allowing them to live in the equatorial climate, it was reported today by NASA.
ReplyDeleteUnder the Law of the Sea Treaty, those Iranian subs might be able to wander right into firing range.
ReplyDeleteElection 2008: Michigan Republican Primary
ReplyDeleteMichigan: Huckabee 21% Romney 20% Giuliani 19%
Saturday, December 08, 2007
Advertisment
Mike Huckabee’s surging campaign has created a three-way toss-up in Michigan’s Republican Primary. The latest Rasmussen Reports telephone survey finds Huckabee earning 21% of the vote. Former Massachusetts Governor Mitt Romney, the son of a former Michigan Governor, attracts 20% support while former New York City Mayor is the top choice for 19% of Likely Republican Primary Voters.
Trailing the Michigan frontrunners are Fred Thompson at 9%, John McCain at 8% and Ron Paul at 7%. Tom Tancredo and Duncan Hunter split 2% while 15% are not sure how they will vote. Michigan’s primary is scheduled for January 15, twelve days after the Iowa caucuses and a week after the New Hampshire Primary. Results from those earlier contests may have a significant impact on the Michigan results.
Currently, Huckabee has a slight edge over Romney in Iowa while Romney has the advantage in New Hampshire. Huckabee leads in South Carolina. Rasmussen Reports, the first firm to show Huckabee leading in Iowa, will be polling again in that state next week. In national polls, Huckabee and Giuliani are on top.
As in other states, Huckabee leads all candidates among Evangelical Christians. In Michigan, he attracts 37% of the Evangelical vote. Giuliani is second among these voters with 16% support. Romney attracts just 6% of Evangelical Primary voters, less support than McCain or Thompson.
Giuliani is viewed favorably by 75% of Likely Primary Voters in Michigan, Romney by 74%, and Huckabee by 67%. However, on the intensity scale, Huckabee is viewed Very Favorably by 34%. Romney earns such ratings from 31% while 27% have a Very Favorable opinion of Giuliani.
McCain and Thompson are each viewed favorably by 63% and Ron Paul is viewed favorably by 26%. Paul is viewed unfavorably by 55% of Likely Primary Voters in the state
"But the powers that be did film it..."
ReplyDeleteAnd I'm going to take a guess as to why: Training purposes.
I cannot think of any other reason.
I'd think that this would put stop to Cedarford's comments about the USA and its 'special friend.'
ReplyDeleteIsrael, Alone in the World
Well, you KNOW it's a good day when Glick has her knickers in a twist.
ReplyDeleteAnd which one of you old SOBs pissed off Teresita
ReplyDeleteI don't mind being called a SOB, but I don't like being called old. That's really nasty.
ReplyDeleteNevermind. I went back and read the thread.
ReplyDeleteDid I say "old," bob? I meant "experienced." My bad.
You Senior Fart, you!
ReplyDeleteHey, old Senior Fart:
ReplyDeleteLets see what we can do about Glick's Twisted Knickers!
Opps strike that "old."
ReplyDeleteAlSeniorFartBob asked me to post another of his many poetic contributions:
ReplyDelete---
Wild Thing
You make my heart sing
You make everything groovy
Wild Thing
No chord
Wild Thing, I think I love you
But, I wanna know for sure
Come on and hold me tight
I love you
Wild Thing
You make my heart sing
You make everything groovy
Wild Thing
Wild Thing, I think you move me
But, I wanna know for sure
So, c'mon and hold me tight
You move me
Wild Thing
You make my heart sing
You make everything groovy
Wild Thing
Wild Thing
C'mon, c'mon, Wild Thing
Shake it, shake it, Wild Thing...
The Story Of "Wild Thing"
ReplyDeleteLarry Page was a budding record producer who had struck lucky with a band called the Ravens. He renamed them the Kinks, and played them "Louie Louie", after which Ray Davies came up with You Really Got Me. Following this success he got a call from someone who said they had a tape by a group who sang You Really Got Me better than the Kinks. He listened to the tape and told them to come back in a year's time, which they did - to the day!
And so the Troggs' first recording session began. Lost Girl b/w The Yella In Me was released on CBS. According to Reg Presley it got one play on Radio Luxembourg at 3 a.m.!
However in 1965, The Wild Ones, a house band for a posh discotheque run by Richard Burton's ex-wife Sybil recorded a song called Wild Thing, written by Chip Taylor, brother of actor John Voight and a performer in his own right.
During a trip to New York, Larry Page heard the demo of Wild Thing, but according to Reg Presley, he wanted the Troggs to record it as a B side, reserving the A side for The Lovin' Spoonful's
"Did You Ever Have To Make Up Your Mind" instead.
The band however thought differently - all those harmonies on the Spoonful song just wasn't them.
The Larry Page Orchestra had a session booked, and The Troggs were told to wait outside in the van in case there was any studio time left.
They waited in their van until they got the signal. There was three quarters of an hour for them to get their equipment in, get a sound, get the songs recorded and get out again.
Wild Thing and With A Girl Like You were both recorded in two takes, in ten minutes!
Doug, far out:
ReplyDeleteWhat reminded you of "Wild Thing?"
It's funny that the wife and I were singing "Wild Thing" on the way home yesterday from the general store (walmart).
She said that she likes the word "groovy." I couldn't remember what the one thing he wanted to know for sure was.
Groovy,
Trish: And which one of you old SOBs pissed off Teresita
ReplyDeleteIts okay now, Trish, I got my name and oak leaf cluster removed from whit's blog.