This is America, when ordering; "Speak English"
Vento steaks his claim: Sign isn't discriminatory
By WILLIAM BENDER
Philadelphia Daily News
benderw@phillynews.com 215-854-5255
IT DOESN'T take a six-hour public hearing like yesterday's to know that Geno's Steaks owner Joey Vento and the Philadelphia Human Relations Commission have different approaches to dealing with the city's immigrants.
The commission, which enforces civil-rights laws and mediates inter-group disputes, distributes pamphlets that ask, "Are you a victim of discrimination?" - in seven languages.
Vento earns most of his cash selling one thing - cheesesteaks - and he wants you to order in one language.
"This is America. When ordering, please speak English."
That's what the sign says at Vento's South Philly sandwich shop on 9th Street and Passyunk Avenue.
But is there anything wrong with "The Sign"? Specifically, does it violate the city's Fair Practices Ordinance by discriminating against immigrants and non-English speakers who frequent Vento's business?
That question wasn't answered yesterday at the Arch Street Meeting House, where a three-person panel heard more than six hours of testimony from witnesses for the HRC, which wants the sign removed, and Vento, who refuses to comply.
A ruling won't come for at least a couple of months, said Joseph Centeno, who chaired yesterday's hearing panel. The panel will make a recommendation to the full commission, but the parties have about 60 days to file post-hearing briefs.
Vento, sporting a black leather jacket and lots of bling, showed up yesterday ready for battle, with his Atlanta-based legal team and dozens of supporters at his side. The sign, he said, posted more than two years ago, is designed to make a political statement and keep the line moving at the world-famous Geno's Steaks.
When Vento was called to testify, the 68-year-old grandson of Italian immigrants started paraphrasing Theodore Roosevelt so quickly that the court reporter had to ask him to slow down.
"To be an American, you have to be American and nothing else. For if you say you're something else, then you're not a true American," Vento said, drawing on the words of the 26th president.
"I'm an American of Italian descent," he said. "I'm not an Italian-American."
More than 100 people attended the hearing, which had a trial-like atmosphere and ran so late that the staff of the historic meeting house wanted to close the place down.
There were pro-immigration groups, Vento loyalists and even some tears from one of his attorneys during the closing arguments - all over a 4-inch-by-9-inch bumper sticker that asks customers to order their food in English.
Paul Hummer, the attorney prosecuting the complaint against Vento on behalf of the HRC, said the sign "discriminates on the basis of national origin because national origin and language are linked."
Hummer drew parallels between Vento's English-only policy and the Jim Crow era in the segregated South. He argued that it violates the section of the city's Fair Practices Ordinance that prohibits places of public accommodation from withholding services based on race, color, ancestry and other classifications.
"Philadelphia is better than this," said Regan Cooper of the Pennsylvania Immigration and Citizenship Coalition. "We can and should live up to our ideals as the City of Brotherly Love."
Another sign at Geno's that says employees have the right to refuse service to any customer, but Vento said it has been there for about 20 years and is not related to the speak-English sign. He testified that he has never turned anyone away because he couldn't order in English."Nobody goes away without a sandwich," Vento said.
"Do you think I'm stupid? I built the business from six dollars into a multimillion-dollar business . . . And you're gonna tell me I'm refusing service to people and I'm that successful?" he asked. "Well, if I am, I'm a very lucky guy and I should be on a plane to Las Vegas 'cause I'll probably break Las Vegas with this kinda luck."
Hummer countered that the sign "implies" that you can't get a cheesesteak there if you can't speak English, and is therefore discriminatory.
Meanwhile, Vento's business has been "phenomenal" since the controversy erupted last year, he said.
Vento, who still works the early-morning shift at his shop, has become an unlikely authority in the national immigration debate and probably the only cheesesteak vendor in the country whose presidential endorsement carries any weight. (He's backing Republican Rudy Giuliani, who visited Geno's in October.)
But, Vento said, he still doesn't understand all the fuss.
"The people that are protesting, I don't know where they're coming from," he said. "I'm not asking anybody to recite the Declaration of Independence." *
Old Joey promotes an unwelcome climate for non-english speakers, but will serve the foreigners, regardless.
ReplyDeleteAs I saw in tv, "Ladies Nights" are under legal attack too, businesses discriminating based upon gender.
The Brave New World.
Joey's model, one that is under legal assualt, is a model that is more forgiving than the one doug advocates for the rest of the US.
He would deny service.
doug was moaning in the Ugly American thread about what the US could do, to displace the illegal residents living in the US.
I suggest he begin his campaign in his home State of Hawaii, where illegals are now granted drivers licenses. Hawaii, a place where he can hold sway, with his vote.
In AZ we have started a movement, as Mayor Gordon noted, here at ground zero, but it's tough. The Federals do not assist, in fact their failures to secure the frontier make local enforcement attempts impossible to succeed, as the continued influx overwhelms the local efforts.
This problem was highlighted in New York, where there are upwards of 1 million illegals, but the Federals will only deport less than 500 annually, from New York. Meanwhile New York, its' Governor and Mayors CANNOT deport people, not from their Cities or State.
The US prison system is already bursting at the seams with violent criminals and drug users.
As the wikipedia tells US, our prison percentages mirror our oil consumption... The United States has 5% of the world's population and 25% of the world's incarcerated population.
There are 2 million people already in prisons, there are 20 million illegals, do the math.
After watching US politics for decades, incrementalism is the key to success. Until the first step is taken, the trip will never begin, let alone get to the desired end.
The first step in the migration story's solution is to secure the border. Everything else is secondary, or as we used to say in the Army, "Eyewash".
Like painting rocks around the Parade Grounds. Something to talk about, a way to fill time, but not of any real life signifigance.
Actions that did not promote improved combat readiness.
$22 Billion USD was wired to Mexico, last year. How much more went south in the pockets of transients is unknown.
But the results of cutting those transfers, without adequate security on the border, is predictable. It will only result in more folks coming north.
Iraq the model of that experience.
10% of the population became foreign refugees when the civil strive became critical. Beheadings for terror purposes are already occurring in Acapulco, Mexico.
Maybe we'll just put the resulting 11 million new refugees and the 20 million economic refugees already here in camp tents, like the Palistinian refugees, never to be acclimated to their new "home".
That's it, doug, we'll use the Lebanonese/Palistinian model, here in the US. It has been such a success, there in the Levant.
Why does he need a sign> If illegals go to a restaurant or store that is no hablamos espanol and they no habla ingles, they aren't going to be able to order anything anyway.
ReplyDelete"Deny Service"
ReplyDeleteJoey does not give his product away, nor do I advocate that he should refuse to sell it.
It should go without saying that neither of us are so foolish as to think he could stay in business by *giving* away he product.
I assume that as a given, at least for sane folks, but of course socialists are more than happy to give away services paid for by other people's money if it increases their power of control.
Apples and Oranges.
"Philadelphia is better than this," said Regan Cooper of the Pennsylvania Immigration and Citizenship Coalition. "We can and should live up to our ideals as the City of Brotherly Love."
ReplyDelete---
The exact words the Huckster uses to justify giving away other people's money!
W may not use those exact words, but no one comes close to matching his compassion in spending other peoples money, safety, and their lives, to sate his sick and twisted soul.
It is his store. When the government at any level gets involved with how a successful steak joint is run, it is time to take another look at the governmental laws, and commissions that are being used by bureaucrats to waste our money and harass US citizens. Those laws should be over-turned, the commissions de-funded and the bureaucrats made redundant. That is the lesson.
ReplyDelete"The Federals do not assist, in fact their failures to secure the frontier make local enforcement attempts impossible to succeed, as the continued influx overwhelms the local efforts."
ReplyDelete---
The situation is different now, than when Rudy was mayor.
As more and more states take matters into their own hands, states like Calif. will be forced to face the reality of their suicidal course.
...unless, of course the Feds cut off this growing Federalist Survival Response by State Govts.
Which I would not bet against.
"incrementalism is the key to success"
ReplyDelete---
Which is the genius of the Federalist model.
...if not aborted by Centralized Tyranny.
It hasn't changed, doug.
ReplyDeleteThe Feds are not deporting mass numbers of illegals, they're just not.
The Head Fed at Homeland Security has said he's not fencing the "empty desert", places were the going gets tough.
Well, the tough will get going, there.
What's Hawaii doing, they and North Carolina, providing drivers licenses to illegals. You should move to OKlahoma, and then be happy?
"Ladies Night" are under legal assualt, the trends are not favorable.
The Federals ignore the 10th Amendment, of all the Presidental contenders, only Mr Paul understands the meaning of the 10th Amendment.
Luring young, healthy, productive citizens from an already deprived Mexico with free services is most certainly not a viable cure for Mexico's disease.
ReplyDeleteIt is changing as states quit giving away free services and people self-deport to Mexico or Calif.
ReplyDelete...but I grant you that real border control is another part of the solution.
A Hawaiian experiences Aloha, California Style.
ReplyDeleteThey're lured by wages, first and foremost, doug.
ReplyDeleteIt's not until they're here that the other "opportunities" become known. Then the wives and children follow.
If the border is not secured, none of the other actions will have lasting effect.
The BBC is reporting:Turkey Bombs Iraq
ReplyDeleteSpeaking of Calif. Ms T:
ReplyDeleteThe Governator has added uncounted Billions of Bonded Indebtedness the people of Calif did not own in Grey's Days.
...and now with a $14 Billion Dollar Deficit, wants to start a State Run Health-Care System!
"It's not until they're here that the other "opportunities" become known. "
ReplyDelete---
Simply not true.
Their corrupt Govt has not yet made it impossible for the people to know what goes on up here.
In fact, the Govt ASSISTS the people in gaining access to free services!
Mexican drug wars on
ReplyDeleteYoutube
ht, Ms T.
How many illegals have you talked to, doug?
ReplyDeleteI have spoken to at least a hundred.
What is your base of knowledge on the subject of motivation?
The Mexican Government does assist in the migration, that's not argued. But the families do not come first. They are not coming, enmass, for the schools.
First the men come and get jobs. The ones that stay, long term.
Some mothers to be do cross the border to birth, but that's another part of the issue that securing the frontier would solve.
All these challenges come back to the open frontier, not welfare or health care provided to US residents.
Those are seperate issues entirely.
Hugh Hewitt, being a "clear eyed pragmatist" rallied for Arnold over a real conservative.
ReplyDeleteAs he and W did with Arlen Specter and many others.
The voters responded.
(Hewitt also was against opposing W on Harriet Miers!)
"Lookout! lookout! we might get somewhere standing on principal!"
"Some mothers to be do cross the border to birth, but that's another part of the issue that securing the frontier would solve."
ReplyDelete...and free schools, health care, food stamps, legal services, and etc...
Which is another necessary part of the solution that more and more states are addressing in the Face of Federal (read GWB Perp in Chief) Derelection of duty.
My experience with illegals is limited to working with them back in the day before both govts were actively subverting people and the law of the land at today's levels.
Anybody see a Teapot?
ReplyDelete"Why does he need a sign> If illegals go to a restaurant or store that is no hablamos espanol and they no habla ingles, they aren't going to be able to order anything anyway."
ReplyDelete---
They manage to get something to eat, just not always exactly what they wanted!
("I'm not asking anybody to recite the Declaration of Independence.")
...but one of the Federal Depts Sues Businesses for Having English only as a requirement.
Currently being fought out in Congress.
Hey, Albob:
ReplyDeleteDid they reverse the direction of that spinning ballerina or not?
...nobody ever gave their view on that.
(my teapot's the first link!)
"The limit was first postulated by physicist Gerard 't Hooft in 1993. It can arise from generalizations from seemingly distant speculation that the information held by a black hole is determined not by its enclosed volume but by the surface area of its event horizon. "
ReplyDelete===
That always seemed so obvious, to me.
I don't know how many times, dozens I imagine, I've heard people identify themselves as blank American this, blank American that, all unconsciously too, for the most part, on the talk shows I liste to. Sometimes I think I'm the only one alive doesn't give a fig for the home country.
ReplyDeleteAll I knows is, she went right then she went left, I think, Doug.
I don't see any teapot in there, I think they are pulling our leg.
I'm still trying to figure out the consequences of teapot dome ...
ReplyDeleteIt can arise from generalizations from seemingly distant speculation
ReplyDeleteWhat's this 'distant speculation'?
And seemingly, too, what's that?
I've got coffee pot sindrum, need my morning fix.
ReplyDeleteAlways buy your coffee at WalMart, much cheaper there.
bobal: I've got coffee pot sindrum, need my morning fix. Always buy your coffee at WalMart, much cheaper there.
ReplyDeleteBobal, you are an infidel! This is (suburban) Seattle, home of Starbucks, the $4 latte, and people who walk around with coffee on an IV drip.
YOUTUBE: "Paddle out" memorial in La Jolla for surfer Emery Kauanui Jr.
ReplyDelete"I'm still trying to figure out the consequences of teapot dome ..."
ReplyDelete---
As I recall, AlGore's family received some substantial Carbon Offsets in that deal.
Al Gore succeeded where the Administration of Warren Harding failed. He privatized Elk Hills, the huge oilfield outside Bakersfield, California, set aside long ago as a strategic reserve for the Navy. Back in the Harding days, Interior Secretary Albert Fall went to jail for taking a $100,000 bribe to approve lease of the field to Edward Doheny. For seventy years, lingering recollections of Teapot Dome remained strong enough to stymie attempted raids on the military's largest strategic fuel reserve. Nixon tried to sell it, and so did Reagan; each time Congress beat them back.
ReplyDeleteRat, it's all about the 'Ohio Gang', "Keeping Cool with Coolidge",mountains that look like teapots, hills like white elephants, strategic petroleum reserves, the WSJ, disappearing records, no interest loans, sudden improvements in living standards, "Voyages of Understanding"--the kind of environment an Al Sharpton would flourish in--all right Here for you from wiki--your American Government in action.
ReplyDeleteAll you people on the West Coast must be rich Teresita, giving money away like that, for a cup of colored water.
ReplyDelete"Gore family money came from Armand Hammer, boss of Occidental Petroleum, whose father founded the Communist Party USA. Hammer admitted that he carried suitcases with millions in cash from Moscow to bankroll the CPUSA. The Soviets helped Occidental acquire oil deals with its allies including Libya.
ReplyDeleteYoung Gore earned mostly Cs and Ds at Harvard, flunked out of Vanderbilt University’s Divinity School, and with bottom-scraping grades dropped out of Vanderbilt’s Law School.
But with red-and-black family wealth, oily Al was elected senator via his familiar name, doubtless mistaken by voters for his father. In 1992 he was the bottom-half of a Clinton-Gore ticket elected with a 43 percent popular vote plurality — and re-elected four years later with less than a majority of popular votes.
Gore’s hallmarks became radical environmentalism and corruption. But because Gore was a Democrat, the liberal mainstream media did little to pursue Buddhist Templegate or other potentially criminal Gore activities.
Gore arranged drilling rights for Occidental Petroleum in the U.S. Navy’s strategic petroleum reserve for a paltry $100 per acre.
This same oilfield was once known as Teapot Dome, focus of a major scandal seven decades earlier when Republican Warren Harding’s administration made a similar sweetheart deal with a campaign contributor. Liberal journalists refused to lift the lid on Gore’s teapot dome. "
Whit, your Turkey Bombs Iraq post comes up Dashboard for me, just like my first Teapot? post did.
ReplyDeleteThis same oilfield was once known as Teapot Dome,
ReplyDeleteSo the crooks got it, in the end.
Business, as usual.
ReplyDeleteBuchanan says the Chicoms are going to be forced to buy most of our assets.
ReplyDelete(the only way to preserve the value of their ever-mounting pile of our debt)
Talk about selling them the rope!
Hell, Albob: you could sell Cotton Rights on that land for more than $100/acre!
ReplyDeleteThe Vatican Monkeys with Christmas. You'd think the Vatican would leave well enough alone, but no, they got to make out that Jesus was a carpenter, rather than a scholar, a man arrested in a fancy seamless robe, whose argued with the Doctors of the Law at age twelve, and whose body was interred by one of his rich friends.
ReplyDeleteI predict my services will be slightly less "well attended"!
ReplyDeleteYep, doug, in Mexico the surfers are raped and robbed, in SoCal they're beaten to death.
ReplyDeleteOh ho Mexico ... never really been but they sure want to go ...
Oh ho Mexico
Ms T's Heroine:
ReplyDeleteHillary Clinton traveled to more than 80 countries, going from barrios to rural villages to meetings with heads of state....she spearheaded the Clinton Administration's efforts to combat the global crisis of human trafficking. She persuaded the First Ladies of the Americas to use their collective power to eradicate measles and improve girls' education throughout the western Hemisphere. And she is widely credited with helping women in Kuwait finally win the right to vote...
Thank God Human Trafficking and Disease have been elimnated.
PBUH(er)
I don't have any idea 'what Jesus really was' as to occupation, if any, just casting a fly towards T hoping to catch her opinion. Te Pope says he was a carpenter.
ReplyDeleteIf he was a carpenter
ReplyDeleteand she was lady
would she have married him anyway
would she have had his baby?
Or was it that saxophone that closed the deal?
All those Gate's Billions have been ill-spent:
ReplyDeleteWhile people and resources in Africa were diverted (lured) to attend to AIDS, mothers and children died at record rates from common diseases.
...due to lack of healthcare.
Lots of malaria deaths were supposedly reported as AIDS, I recall reading.
ReplyDeleteA lack of effective pestisides being deadlier to the Africans than a lack of condoms.
Bubba was her source of Free Pharmaceuticals, how could she resist?
ReplyDeleteForced March cocaine tablets
Joey Vento has every right to his sign.
ReplyDelete"FREE JOEY"
Malaria seems to be the big killer in Africa. Seems like I read something about genetic altering of the mosquitos on the horizon, but can't recall what it was.
Man, my tooth hurts!
ReplyDeleteEugenics for mosquitos!!!
ReplyDeleteAccelerated evolution, by the hand of man!!
Would that be proof of Intelligent Design?
We just gotta Metrosexualize the Male Skeeters Albob, and they'll be too busy putting on their eyeliner to worry about procreatin!
ReplyDeleteAt 15 cents, count me in!
ReplyDeleteNow that'd be some cost effective Healthcare
ReplyDelete"Discontinued circa 1920 due to excessive demand "
ReplyDelete---
Adam Smith is confused.
Communism is good, the Bible tells me so.
ReplyDelete- Ms T:
---
George: From each according to his ability, to each according to his need
Acts 2:44-45 And all that believed were together, and had all things common; and sold their possessions and goods, and parted them to all men, as every man had need.
Wretchard replies:
ReplyDeleteThose who did this:
Acts 2:44-45 And all that believed were together, and had all things common; and sold their possessions and goods, and parted them to all men, as every man had need.
needed a well-functioning market to sell their goods and disposed of the proceeds according their will. That's different from:
'And all whether they liked it or not were bound together, and had all their things regarded as common; and had their possessions and goods garnished, and parted them to all men, as every man had need.'
The first describes a voluntary act of charity, as exemplified by Francis of Assisi; the second describes what will be accomplished by tax collectors and revenue agents. Nobody 'had' to be a member of the church but everybody has to pay his taxes. Freedom and taxation are related subjects, but they are not equivalent.
Dad kills his daughter over his Mussulman dress code, in Canada.
ReplyDeleteGod told him how to deal with her disrespect. She did not honor him, as she should have.
At least the Christians didn't kill the Jews in the New York subway.
That Abraham and his religions ...
As Mr Bush relates to US:
"We see in Islam a religion that traces its origins back to God's call on Abraham. We share your belief in God's justice, and your insistence on man's moral responsibility. ...
... "Islam is a faith that brings comfort to people. It inspires them to lead lives based on honesty, and justice, and compassion."
I'm sure that Aqsa Parvez, age 16, appreciates that justice and compassion, in death if not in life.
Most of the stories at the link excuse the religion of Abraham.
"... Islam is a faith that brings comfort to people. It inspires them to lead lives based on honesty, and justice, and compassion."
ReplyDelete---
...and Saudi funding for the SECOND Bush Presidential Library, and if things work out right, the SECOND Clinton Presidential Library!
But when the father called the police to report her death, he spoke English, so all's well in the world.
ReplyDeleteI'll try it again:
ReplyDeleteBBC reports: Turkish Planes Bomb Iraq
Lets hope Mom, and Ms Grosso see some measure of justice done.
ReplyDelete--
the Perp, having already beaten up other innocent victims, including women.
...and Saudi funding for the SECOND Bush Presidential Library, and if things work out right, the SECOND Clinton Presidential Library!
ReplyDeleteThe Bush-43 Presidential Library is a three-ring binder, because he hates to read anything over one page long, especially if there's no pictures. The Clinton-44 Presidential Library will feature hundreds of FBI background reports on former Republican White House employees which just magically appear and disappear every day.
Lawyers for the defendants say Kauanui’s death was an accident.
ReplyDeleteFollowing the fellow home, then kicking him while he was down, just an accident.
Re: Joey Vento.
ReplyDeleteThe problem is too many people do not see private businesses as privately owned. They confuse private and public spaces.
The smoking issue being the preeminent example. So many otherwise conservative people support smoking bans.
Communism is good. And you better believe it, as in the Acts of the Apostles, good Peter zapped(thus denying his Lord if any man ever did) Ananias and his skirt Saphira for the sin of giving a measely one half of all their worldly belongings to the Church(Acts 5:1-12), instead of the whole hog. Poor Ananias and Saphira, bet they wished they'd never heard of baptism into the Church.
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteKelo v. City of New London sets the new tone, whit.
ReplyDeleteThere is no private property, only a public license for private use.
Everyone must provide and accomadate for the "common good"
A Brave New World
Acts 5:10,11
ReplyDeleteAt that moment she(Saphira) fell down at his feet, and died. Then the young men came in and, finding her dead, carried her out and buried her beside her husband. And great fear seized the whole church and all who heard about these events.
jeeze, I'd think so.
The imams were saying, it was just a domestic violence incident, nothing about islam here, move along now, faster.
ReplyDeleteBut what were the immamas saying, behind the veil?
There was a classic interview with this good humoured Jewish guy on Coast-To-Coast last night. Thought he'd make a way for himself in the world by living by the strick Biblical rules from what we call the Old Testament for a year, and writing a book about it. The trouble started immediately, as here in America these days its damned hard to find a robe made out of only one material. He ends up, in a robe, with a long beard, sitting on a park bench one day, minding his own business. Guy comes up and says,
ReplyDelete"What are you doing."
"Living like an Old Testament Jew for a year, to find out what it's like."
"What's in the sack?"
"Pebbles."
"What are the pebbles for?"
"To stone adulterers with."
"I'm an adulterer."
Our hero flips a few pebbles at him, which pisses the guy off, more or less, and our hero retreats.
:)
Bobal: in the Acts of the Apostles, good Peter zapped(thus denying his Lord if any man ever did) Ananias and his skirt Saphira for the sin of giving a measely one half of all their worldly belongings to the Church(Acts 5:1-12), instead of the whole hog.
ReplyDeleteActually, Bobal, they were zapped for giving 50% but declaring 100%. And even Ananias was wearing a skirt, back in those days. TOGA! TOGA! TOGA!
"The Bush-43 Presidential Library is a three-ring binder, because he hates to read anything over one page long, especially if there's no pictures. The Clinton-44 Presidential Library will feature hundreds of FBI background reports on former Republican White House employees which just magically appear and disappear every day."
ReplyDeleteThe first part of this, at least, is completely wrong.
And three cheers for Mr. Vento. It was social pressure like this that has helped the 'melting pot' along for generations, until we went stupid.
ReplyDeleteAlways declare all your income and holdings on your tax forms, and live.
ReplyDeleteTo Duck Official Radar, Central American Gangs Ditch Tattoos, Baggy Pants, Go for College Look
ReplyDeleteCHIMALTENANGO, Guatemala (Associated Press) -- Tattoos, baggy pants and tank tops are out. Smart blazers and university recruits are in. It's an extreme makeover for Central America's gangs. Facing harsh crackdowns by government security forces and citizen vigilante groups, they are trying to lower their profile.
The Mara 18 and Mara Salvatrucha gangs are known throughout Central America and the U.S. for their brazen tactics, including beheading their enemies and covering entire buildings and even their bodies with gang symbols.
Now, according to anti-gang operatives, these traditionally uneducated and aimless youth have begun recruiting high school and college students, and are expanding their criminal repertoire from minor robbery to large-scale extortion, prostitution, car theft and kidnappings.
...
After anti-gang laws were approved in Honduras and El Salvador, and a string of killings in Guatemala that were committed by angry neighbors and security forces, gang members have stopped tattooing themselves and have resorted to more subtle, low profile ways of identifying themselves as members of those criminal organizations. Today, gang members with tattooed faces, are either dead, in prison or hiding
But they should have no problem in Phoenix, even with a body totally covered by tatoos, due to the profiling regs.
ReplyDeleteIt's insane.
An oldie but a goody from my favorite zipperheads:
ReplyDeletewww.freetrade.org/pubs/
pas/tpa-019.pdf
(If I've told you once, T, I've told you...well, I've told you once, that it's not worth your time to engage the boobs of the BC booby hatch. And frankly I can't imagine that Wretchard himself gets much out of it anymore either, if ever he did. That may be projection on my part but, jeeZUSchrist, they can sing one tune. And badly. Just. Don't. Do It.)
Trish: If I've told you once, T, I've told you...well, I've told you once, that it's not worth your time to engage the boobs of the BC booby hatch. And frankly I can't imagine that Wretchard himself gets much out of it anymore either, if ever he did. That may be projection on my part but, jeeZUSchrist, they can sing one tune. And badly. Just. Don't. Do It.
ReplyDeleteIt's been slim pickings there in Nuke-em-allville, Sweetie. For a while every thread was being hijacked by someone who was pushing a version of Mutually Assured Destruction called "END" which basically said if America experiences a nuclear 9-11, we just hit everyone on our shit list and don't even bother trying to find out who exactly hit us. I thought I was dealing with Habu again in one of his many disguises. But at least the management doesn't make personal attacks over there like they do on the EB.
Bobal: But they should have no problem in Phoenix, even with a body totally covered by tatoos, due to the profiling regs.
ReplyDeleteI don't know, Bobal, if I was interviewing an El Salvadorian for a job in the I.T. department, for example, and his forehead was tattoed like this, God forgive me, but I might be unconsciously biased toward the nerdy guy with the greasy hair and the pocket protector.
Exactly, T. It's some pretty thin gruel being served up (spit up, over and over again) by the BC commenters - and to some extent by the man himself. A badly stuck thinker walking a tightrope.
ReplyDeleteYou pushed whit's buttons. We've all got a few, haven't we? That's no argument, in my book, for renewing a tour of the intellectual sewer that is BC.
Somebody's gonna sic the metaphor police on me.
ReplyDeletethe Saturday Night sketch a few decades ago sums it up best...
ReplyDelete"cheeseburger cheeseburger, pepsi, pepsi"
Allll world travelers know it is QUITE EASY to LEARN the KEY words of your favorite grease encased meat and cheese product....
In Phila, (from where I was born), travels to that DIFFERENT country called "South Phila" and orders a "steak sandwich" the simple words to learn are:
"cheesesteak w/onions"
"Steak sandwich & pizza sauce"
"everything"
"peppers"
"onions"
to imply more than this is absurd...
Now if you do travel out of the known universe to Jersey and order you must LEARN their language as well..
I suggest the phrase:
"howya do-in"
as a good opening line, follow by the every popular "eagles suck"
trish: It's some pretty thin gruel being served up (spit up, over and over again) by the BC commenters - and to some extent by the man himself. A badly stuck thinker walking a tightrope.
ReplyDeleteI think Wretchard's basic posts are fine, he is just being ill-served by the current batch of commentators.
That's no argument, in my book, for renewing a tour of the intellectual sewer that is BC...Somebody's gonna sic the metaphor police on me.
Any port in a storm, as long as the flag of my dignity is free to keep flapping.
What do you suppose is the meaning of the 6 0 on that gentleman's head T? Years to serve? Bodies buried? IQ?
ReplyDelete"I think Wretchard's basic posts are fine..."
ReplyDeleteThat makes one of us, anyway.
"...basically said if America experiences a nuclear 9-11, we just hit everyone on our shit list and don't even bother trying to find out who exactly hit us."
ReplyDeleteI was told by a certain counterterrorism expert (a Democrat, and not Scheuer) that in the months after 9-11 he was brought together with a number of other well-known National Security principals to discuss what we would do if we are hit by a nuclear weapon and noone knew where it came from.
He gave, bluntly, that exact answer as the general consensus. "Take care of old family business."
I'd expect this person to be in any new Clinton Administration.
"Any port in a storm..."
ReplyDeleteIt isn't about weathering, T.
Bobal that looks like 666 to me, but the middle digit is only outlined, like he ran out of money to pay the Tattoo Artisan. Of course, the significance of 666 is that it is the sum of the first 36 natural numbers (i.e. 1 + 2 + 3 + ... + 34 + 35 + 36 = 666), and thus a triangular number.
ReplyDelete666 that figures.
ReplyDeleteLook a tad closer, bob.
ReplyDeleteThose are three 6s tattooed on his head, the 6 in the center just not colored in.
Now they are "mainstreaming", suits, ties and machetes.
Ever more dangerous.
That is what we've done after the first 9-11, cutler.
ReplyDeleteTook care of old family business.
The "next" one ...
Cutler: He gave, bluntly, that exact answer as the general consensus. "Take care of old family business."
ReplyDeleteMICHAEL: "Barzini's dead. So is Phillip Tattaglia -- Moe Greene -- Strachi -- Cuneo -- Today I settle all Family business, so don't tell me you're innocent, Carlo. Admit what you did."
That's all nice and macho and sheet, but what they were talking about the BC was announcing the policy beforehand, which was the most objectional thing. Because...suppose we announce that Putin's Russia and the Chicoms are on the doomsday list for their support of Iran and Syria and Hamas. The instant a container ship blows up in a nuclear way in the East River and takes out lower Manhattan, Russia and China will throw everything they got at us before Bush can even put down "My Pet Goat" and get to Air Force One.
No desert rat, we're still playing pretend war.
ReplyDeleteBetween that fellow and St. Francis of Assisi a wide gulf yawns.
ReplyDeleteSo wide in fact one wonders if they are of the same species. All animals of the same species behave in more or less the same predictable way, and while this guy and St. Francis both might be predictable, if one just wrote down the behavior pattern, you'd think they were of a different species.
As I know you're aware.
ReplyDeleteTell that to any of the 4,000 plus families of the dead US troops, cutler.
ReplyDeleteNot pretend at all to them. Not a pretend war, just ill managed.
But not pretend.
To say that dishonors those surviving families.
You should know better, or learn.
Oh, shove your pretentiousness.
ReplyDeleteI think not.
ReplyDeleteI've served, been shot at in a non-war, my son was at FallujahII, in neither instance was anyone pretending.
500 Billion USD ill spent in Iraq, that's not pretend, either.
Piss off your mom, go and enlist.
ReplyDeleteGo play the game, then come back and tell us it's pretend.
WIO,
ReplyDeleteYou forgot, "Jeet?" which is South Philly for, "Have you had dinner?"
Everyone knows what I meant. Not that there is no combat or deaths, but that we as a nation aren't truly fighting as if we care who wins.
ReplyDeleteSo you pass off the mustered outrage all you like.
I don't sweat you.
And it's now well over 500 billion.
ReplyDeleteSo add that to your outrage.
No sweat, because you're safe behind the security of those that have gone and served their country.
ReplyDeleteYou could go, but your folks would be unhappy, putting yourself in harms way when they think there was no cause to.
If you thought was cause, you'd go regardless of your mother and father's wishes, any real patriot would.
You are a patriot, are you not?
Or do you only want that Federal position for the job security it offers?
You know very little about me. But it must make you feel real tough to throw rapiers like that, eh?
ReplyDeleteAs I said, I don't sweat you.
Just know what your avatar has made public, cutler.
ReplyDeleteWhether that is the "real" you or not, makes little difference.
Your avatar hides behind skirts, then belittles the sacrifices of real people.
Words have meaning, an educated avatar should know that, or learn.
The best, I hear, is Pat's King of Steaks, though Geno's ranks in the top 5.
ReplyDeleteI just got back from a DIA interview. The first question I asked them? "How reserve friendly is your department?"
ReplyDeleteBecause no matter what happens, I'm going to do my best to serve country, either active or reserve.
Now, I really have obligation to tell you that.
But I just felt like putting an arrow through your bullshit.
Government benefits!!! HAHA!
I just turned down a defense consulting job that would have given almost twice the salary I'll get at either a government position or in the military.
No sir, after the bullshit you just tried to pull, you should be ashamed of yourself.
Now, I really have no obligation to tell you that.
ReplyDeleteWhoa there, both of you.
ReplyDeleteWay back when at Belmont, Rat, you commented that "the war is over." (Shortly after Fallujah Deux.) You were unequivocal in this. I thought it obnoxious, and not primarily because my own husband was decidedly at war - actual war - at the time in SA. C'mon.
Ye without sin and all that.
Cutler has expressed a genuine desire and ambition to serve, and that's utmost noble as far as I'm concerned.
ReplyDeleteThe Iraq war was over, trish.
ReplyDeleteWe were not fighting a war, but policing a country. The US had moved from war fighting to nation building
But that policing and the nation building were not pretend. It just was not a war, despite the protestations of the Clubbers
I hope he goes and joins a service branch, it'd be good for him and the country.
When I was in Salvador, it was not a war, though weapons were fired and folks died. Policing and nationbuilding, not a war.
ReplyDeleteHell, "we" weren't even there.
Only civilians and 54 uniformed service members, if I recall the number correctly.
I understood your fundamental point shortly enough, Rat. But there's the other side of it, which you more than anyone ought to appreciate...and apparently do, if it only just now struck you.
ReplyDeleteThe trouble we can get into with words...
Cutler will find a place for himself, Rat, regardless.
ReplyDeleteRon Paul raises a chunk of Money Those that support Paul seem to be willing to open their pocketbooks.
ReplyDeleteIt struck me from the beginning, I was trying to imprint cutler with the importance of word choices, he chose to think it of it as pretentiousness.
ReplyDeleteDetached as he is from the realities of military service.
Pretend, a poor choice of adjective.
Definitions of pretend on the Web:
ReplyDeletefeign: make believe with the intent to deceive; "He feigned that he was ill"; "He shammed a headache"
dissemble: behave unnaturally or affectedly; "She's just acting"
put forward a claim and assert right or possession of; "pretend the title of King"
guess: put forward, of a guess, in spite of possible refutation; "I am guessing that the price of real estate will rise again"; "I cannot pretend to say that you are wrong"
make: represent fictitiously, as in a play, or pretend to be or act like; "She makes like an actress"
make-believe: the enactment of a pretense; "it was just pretend"
profess: state insincerely; "He professed innocence but later admitted his guilt"; "She pretended not to have known the suicide bomber"; "She pretends to be an expert on wine"
make-believe: imagined as in a play; "the make-believe world of theater"; "play money"; "dangling their legs in the water to catch pretend fish"
wordnet.princeton.edu/perl/webwn
Which definition did cutler mean to use?
pbs.org
ReplyDeleteFrontline: endgame
trish said...
ReplyDeleteCutler has expressed a genuine desire and ambition to serve, and that's utmost noble as far as I'm concerned.
Sun Dec 16, 05:37:00 PM EST
I Second.
Maybe cutler means the same thing WE do, re the UnWar. The Sorta War. Not like we haven't had this conversation numerous times at my house, as well as at the Bar.
ReplyDeleteCutler can speak for himself, and has his own thoughts on the matter, but he is echoing our own long-running dialogue.
There are many ways to describe the Iraq Campaign, or as Team43 calls it, the War in Iraq.
ReplyDeleteNow the US War on Islam, that is a pretend war. To even claim there is such a thing, as was often done at the BC, is to:
make believe with the intent to deceive
But to call the invasion and occupation of Iraq a pretend war ... It was never that.
The casualties never "make believe"
That was the point of the exchange.
I'll admit to an error, whit.
ReplyDeleteOr explain the position I take, to the best of my ability.
Never taking another poster to task on personality, unless taken there first.
I did not say his position or statements were full of pretentiousness. I said he was wrong in using the word PRETEND.
He said I was wrong to draw attention to the families of the dead and wounded.
Pretentiousness - noun Boastful self-importance or display: grandioseness , grandiosity , ostentation , pomposity , pompousness , pretension
Cutler said...
No desert rat, we're still playing pretend war.
...
Cutler said...
As I know you're aware.
That reads as tad more pompous to me, more so than remembering that the 4,000 US KIA were not make believe.
"Maybe cutler means the same thing WE do, re the UnWar. The Sorta War. Not like we haven't had this conversation numerous times at my house, as well as at the Bar."
ReplyDeleteYes, of course, that's exactly what I meant.
"That was the point of the exchange."
No, the point of the exchange is that your crystal ball's broken, Mr. Wizard.
BTW Trish, I've got a few days open this week, waiting for my trip home, if you're still willing to host me before you leave.
ReplyDeletePretend means make believe, cutler
ReplyDeleteWhat's make believe about the casualties?
Un-War, non-War, police action.
All better adjectives than pretend, which is insulting to the families of the dead and wounded, where as the other terms are not.
Words have meaning.
Meanwhile, Ahmadinajad says the West Has Surrendered
ReplyDeleteI like the way some Leathernecks put it...
ReplyDeleteAmerica is not at war.
The Marine Corps is at war;
America is at the mall.
And everyone turns out in Hamastan threateneing more blood of course.
ReplyDeleteIn another speech to the rally, senior Hamas official Mushir al-Masri warned Israel to expect many casualties if troops invade the coastal territory in an attempt to stop almost daily rocket firing by militants into Israel.
ReplyDeleteHow long can this go on?
This comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteIt'd be kind of hard for me to have been implying there are no casualties considering the girl who sat next to me last semester had no left arm.
ReplyDeleteI'll say it again, shove your pretentiousness.
But wait, won't voters blanch when they think of Obama using drugs? For some older voters, it might be an issue, and for rural Iowans, it might make Obama seem more distant from their way of life, but I think most Democratic voters won't care. Plus, the underlying story about Obama's drug use is one in which he looks candid and thoughtful—both in his book and when he talked about his childhood indiscretions a few weeks ago. That's more contrast with Clinton's trouble with voters on questions of honesty. Rudy Giuliani, no patsy when it comes to breaking the law, praised Obama for speaking so forthrightly. This serves to undermine, for now, Shaheen's case that the GOP will some day savage Obama for his past.
ReplyDeletePerhaps the biggest benefit Obama gets from this episode is that he emerges the winner in another big public fight.
It's a sign of the times when it's dangerous to attack a candidate for using drugs in high school and college, not once, but 'whenever I could afford it.'
You're at the mall, cutler
ReplyDeleteIn a land of make believe
And cultural fascism and stupidity come to beloved Canada.
ReplyDeleteCANADA'S THOUGHT POLICE
December 16, 2007 -- Celebrated author Mark Steyn has been summoned to appear before two Canadian judicial panels on charges linked to his book “America Alone."
The book, a No. 1 bestseller in Canada, argues that Western nations are succumbing to an Islamist imperialist threat. The fact that charges based on it are proceeding apace proves his point.
Steyn, who won the 2006 Eric Breindel Journalism Award (co-sponsored by The Post and its parent, News Corp), writes for dozens of publications on several continents. After the Canadian general-interest magazine Maclean's reprinted a chapter from the book, five Muslim law-school students, acting through the auspices of the Canadian Islamic Congress, demanded that the magazine be punished for spreading “hatred and contempt" for Muslims.
The plaintiffs allege that Maclean's advocated, among other things, the notion that Islamic culture is incompatible with Canada's liberalized, Western civilization. They insist such a notion is untrue and, in effect, want opinions like that banned from publication.
Two separate panels, the British Columbia Human Rights Tribunal and the Canadian Human Rights Commission, have agreed to hear the case. These bodies are empowered to hear and rule on cases of purported “hate speech."
Of course, a ban on opinions - even disagreeable ones - is the very antithesis of the Western tradition of free speech and freedom of the press.
Indeed, this whole process of dragging Steyn and the magazine before two separate human-rights bodies for the “crime" of expressing an opinion is a good illustration of precisely what he was talking about.
If Maclean's, Canada's top-selling magazine, is found “guilty," it could face financial or other penalties. And the affair could have a devastating impact on opinion journalism in Canada generally.
As it happens, Canadian human-rights commissions have already come down hard on those whose writings they dislike, like critics of gay rights.
Nor should Americans dismiss this campaign against Steyn and Maclean's as merely another Canadian eccentricity. Speech cops in America, too, are forever attempting similar efforts - most visibly, on college campuses.
In fact, New York City itself has a human-rights panel that tries to stamp out anything deemed too politically incorrect.
Since 9/11, Americans have been alert to the threat of terror from radical Islamists. But there's been all too little concern for a creeping accommodation of radical Islamist tenets, like curbs on critical opinions.
That needs to change.
Ash, if you are free to comment, and feel you can express yourself freely, what say you about the Canadian Thought Police?
ReplyDeleteBut after Mr Romney's latest attack, Mr Huckabee hit back, for the first time repeatedly mentioning Mr Romney by name, highlighting his recent conversion on many issues from liberal Republican to hard-line Right-winger.
ReplyDeleteChip Saltsman, Mr Huckabee's campaign manager, said Mr Romney's attack strategy showed desperation.
"They're attacking us in the mail, on the phones, on TV. If they could attack us by carrier pigeons, I’m sure that'll be next," he said.
Another Bill Clinton
Fially, from Eggplant at BC, a prediction about the future of South Africa---
ReplyDeleteeggplant said...
Off topic: My wife is South African. My family and I have been to Southern Africa more times than I like (the place is dangerous). Mainly because of the family connection, I try to monitor South African politics.
Nelson Mandela was a competent leader (I actually saw him once in Capetown). Thabo Mbeki was no where near as competent as Mandela but much better than your typical Africa leader (I'm damning Mbeki with faint praise). However this new guy (Jacob Zuma) who is coming up to replace Mbeki is a disaster. Zuma is effectively a Robert Mugabe clone. Zuma is a criminal who has committed rape and been involved in extensive corruption (typical Africa politician). Zuma is also a classic communist demagogue appealing to the impoverished uneducated masses of South Africa.
This situation with Zuma is shaping up to be a replay of what Mugage did to Zimbabwe.
The collapse of South Africa as a modern state will have terrible implications for the rest of Africa. South Africa is one of the few nations in sub-Sahara Africa that actually functions like a modern state. South Africa also serves as the economic locomotive pulling along many of the other nations in Southern Africa. I find it amazing that an obvious villan like Zuma will be allowed to wreck the lives of millions of people.
Some 4,075 delegates are to vote for the position of ANC president and other top posts, the results of which could be announced later Monday.
ReplyDeleteZuma has won the backing of five of the ANC's nine provincial branches as well as the women's and youth leagues in the nominations round.
For the first time since 1949, the leader is likely to be chosen in an election showdown instead of a backroom compromise, with both Mbeki and Zuma steadfastly refusing to yield.
Crunch Conference
"You're at the mall, cutler
ReplyDeleteIn a land of make believe"
Whatever, Mr. Wizard.
Trish, scratch the question. I realized I have too much stuff to take care of and get in order. Was probably too late notice anyway, I also realize.
ReplyDeleteBobal,
ReplyDeleteCanada has these things called "hate laws" and I find them problematic. Basically you cannot publish thought that spews hate at an identifiable group. The laws were mainly inspired by hate directed at jews, gays and holocausat deniers. There was a guy that published a website denying the holocaust. They deported him based on these hate laws, or the "thought police" as you refer to them.
They also incarcerated a guy for his writings on child love - child porn. A thought crime.
Like I said, I find this problematic I am at heart a free speech free idea kinda guy even really obnoxious stuff. The basic argument is against my position is that 'of course, we can't allow fold to yell fire in crowded theater'....heck if anyone yelled "fire" in a theater I'd probably ignore the fool - I even tend to ignore the infernal bleating of those mechanical fire alarms (unless I smell smoke).
Anyway, is it okay to urge and teach suicide bombing? Nuclear bomb building? Child rape? Holocaust denial? Even if it is purely a thought experiment, printed words on a page, faux pictorial demonstrations? The Canadian government feels different than I.
The Bush administration also differs from my more libertarian views on such things. Did you see the NYTimes article on electronic evesdropping today? Not only are citizen electronic missives being monitored for terrorist contacts but the data is being analyzed for drug links - contacts with latin america. Duece, I hope you've nothing to hide in you missives to Costa Rica, or Rat, yours to Panama. You don't care that the feds are monitoring you do you? The 'funny' part in all this is the Bush admins threat of veto if blanket immunity isn't granted to the telco's. A TACIT ADMISSION OF ILLEGAL BEHAVIOR. The buggers should be impeached!!!! Failing to enforce the laws of the land is one thing, breaking them even worse.
Precisely what laws were broken?
ReplyDeleteActually I agree with a lot you say there Ash. We had a lady here who published letters to te editor--diatribes against all things Jewish--finally I called the editor and asked him not to publish any more of that trash, using the argument they wouldn't allow it in Canada, even Germany. He says, well we just publish what's out there. She was about due for death anyway and she finally did die ending the problem. The trouble I have is I agree with Steyn. So what do you do? Canadian laws are different than ours that is for sure.
ReplyDeleteI have a near neighbor that has carrier pigeons. I can always avoid unca sam by picking up that art.
ReplyDeleteThank you, Nancy Pelosi
ReplyDeleteNot to be outdone by Spitzer, House Speaker Nancy Pelosi (D-North Korea) succeeded (at least temporarily) in keeping life difficult for employers, particularly small businesses. Senator Lamar Alexander (R-TN) had drafted a short but sweet amendment to a budget bill which would have prohibited the Equal Employment Opportunity Commission (EEOC) -- the federal government’s civil rights watchdog – from using funds appropriated by the bill to finance lawsuits against businesses which require employees to speak English on the job.
Senator Alexander is considered by many to be a “moderate” Republican, and his amendment did not exactly reach for the stars. The EEOC could still sue companies with English-only rules; the amendment only prohibited the EEOC from using certain monies to finance the suits. The amendment would only apply to lawsuits filed in the future, cold comfort to businesses which have already been haled into court. The amendment would only protect a business “entity,” meaning that self-employed individuals and informal businesses would not be protected.
Still, the amendment was certainly a step in the right direction, and both houses of Congress knew it. The budget bill, with Senator Alexander’s amendment, passed the Senate on a vote of 75 to 19. The House concurred in the amendment by a vote of 218 to 186. What could possibly stand in the way of a common sense reform with substantial majorities on both sides of Capitol Hill?
Madame Pelosi, of course.
Now, the last time I checked the Constitution, the Speaker of the House cannot veto legislation. Only the person who works in the Oval Office has a veto pen...
I have a neighbor who has a Carrier, and the Bastard is always lording it over me.
ReplyDeleteBTW Trish, I've got a few days open this week, waiting for my trip home, if you're still willing to host me before you leave.
ReplyDeleteSun Dec 16, 08:24:00 PM EST
Just got back, cutler.
This week entails readying an entire household to be packed into storage (we've fallen waaay behind) and readying the house to lease - also helping my equally foot-dragging son wrap up his semester early. Then we leave for the Holidays in Penn. But we'll be around until sometime in January.
nice post love reading it
ReplyDelete