I am often detecting sympathy for the Kurds as if they are a box of chocolates in the Middle East. The sympathy seems to extend to the PKK and against the Turks. The PKK is often referred to only as the Kurdish Workers Party. It is in fact the "Partiya Komunistê Kurdistan." Need I say more?
That leads me to the terribly irresponsible act of the House of Representatives under Nancy Pelosi in the condemning of Turkey over treatment of the Armenians. Folks, the woman is no Mensa candidate. She is going to get Americans killed with her nonsense.
Today, Pelosi told ABC News,"I said if it passed the committee that we would bring it to the floor." This act in itself is reprehensible. Something that happened in 1915 is something that needs to be sorted out by historians and not by a bunch of historical illiterates in the US House of Representatives.
The consequences to US interests and policies, in and around Iraq, over this stupidity will be significant. The Democratic leadership in the House needs to be called on it. There are more people in US prisons than there are Armenians in the US and yet the vote counters in Congress, will put their interests ahead of US interests. This is not good.
If a two state solution is good enough to cram down Israel’s throat, why is it not good enough for Turkey?
ReplyDeleteAnd also, when can we expect Turkey to withdraw from Cypress?
ReplyDeleteNothing is simple in the Middle East
ReplyDeleteThat doesn't answer my question, Deuce. There's a double standard here, and doubly so given Turkey's action in Cypress.
ReplyDeleteBecause if the secular experiment fails in Turkey, then it fails, everywhere.
ReplyDeleteThe prospect of that, to much for the compassionate clobalists to imagine.
Where was the Caliphate last commanded? But on the banks of the Bosphrous ...
Where will it arise, again?
Is the Pakistani Army inept, or not willing to fight in an insurgent civil war?
If allied with the Turks, who've always been capable soldiers.
Faith, Piety and Fight in the path of Allah
True Believers ...
Wikipedia has a different PKK flag. It reminds me of the Rush album 2112, but there's no hammer and sickle. But it doesn't take a symbol to give me a clue we're dealing with commies here. PKK means Kurdistan Workers Party, which is the most Stalinist name I've seen since New People's Radio (NPR).
ReplyDeleteI’ll take commie Kurds over Islamist Turks, any day.
ReplyDeletePakistani Army on the march
ReplyDeleteSecurity and terrorism expert Deniz Ülke Arıboğan likens terrorism to an apple tree with green leaves, red apples, branches and the body, but with something more.
ReplyDelete...
The military is doing its job in Turkey: it is fighting terrorists. What the politicians should do is fight terrorism.
...
The most important aspect of terrorism is psychological and then sociological. Those who choose to become terrorists see themselves as self-sacrificing, self-giving people.
Fight Terrorism
PKK for Dummies:
ReplyDeleteWhat percent of the Kurdish population are
PKK True Believers?
Eggplant said,
ReplyDeletePelosi's politics can be both ugly and subtle.
Essentially, Pelosi is deliberately infuriating the Turks and weakening America's position in the Middle East to advance opposition to the Iraq War. Ralph Peter's makes this clear in this article. .
(some history too, which I am not yet up for reading)
This comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDelete16 million Kurds total.
ReplyDelete8 million are in Turkish Kurdistan.
Turkey estimates 4,000 are PKK.
Pelosi the Moron, don't miss her drivel in the third paragraph below.
ReplyDeleteHead-on confrontation looms over bill
Washington stepped up efforts over the weekend to soothe Ankara's anger over the US House's adoption of a resolution labeling the mass killings of Anatolian Armenians during World War I as genocide, but there do not seem to be even any minor signs of backing down in the Turkish capital, which asserts that the resolution is a fatal blow to the future of bilateral relations between the two NATO allies.
Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdoğan said that Turkey would not be deterred by the possible consequences, if it decides to stage a cross-border offensive into Iraq.
The US administration's efforts to contain possible damage are also facing a daunting challenge from the rival Democrats, who remain determined to press ahead with the resolution despite Ankara's fury and calls from the Republican administration against the motion.
"I said if it passed the committee that we would bring it to the floor," Speaker of the House of Representatives Nancy Pelosi said on ABC television,
claiming that possible reprisals affecting Turkey's cooperation with the US military were "hypothetical" and would not derail the resolution."Some of the things that are harmful to our troops relate to values -- Abu Ghraib, Guantanamo, torture. All of those issues [are] about who we are as a country. And I think that our troops are well served when we declare who we are as a country and increase the respect that people have for us as a nation."
Thanks Mat!
ReplyDeleteSo the vast majority of Kurds are our best allies!
What is your reply, mat, to Rat saying the Kurds should control the PKK?
Doug,
ReplyDeleteThe Kurds fought an active hot war against the PKK. Talabani himself, who’s a Kurd, said that war against Turkey equals to war against democracy. I’ve already said this, the PKK is nothing but a cynical self-serving plot, a vehicle for ethnic cleansing and genocide for the Turks and Iranians, against the Kurds.
Gunmen ambushed the priests' car, dragged them out and took them away, Archbishop Basile Georges Casmoussa, Mosul's head of the Syrian Catholic Church, one of the branches of the Roman Catholic Church.
ReplyDeleteCasmoussa himself was kidnapped in January 2005 and released a day later without ransom after the abductors realized his identity.
The pope asked the kidnappers to "let the two religious men go" during his traditional Sunday blessing to pilgrims and tourists gathered in St. Peter's Square.
Gunmen Ambush
It's My Right To Do What I'm Doing whined Craig, as he appealed the judge's dismissal of his earlier appeal of his voluntary guilty plea.
ReplyDeletePretending To Be Gay Priest says he 'was doing research'. Craig should have used some creative defense like this, not this dull drone of denial, denial, denial.
ReplyDeleteKurdish Dreams Find Foothold in Iraq
ReplyDeleteThose hills in the background of the picture could be right outside Lewiston, Idaho.
Those hills in the background of the picture could be right outside Lewiston, Idaho.
ReplyDeleteThat's cutback county and switchback city, going up to Pullman from there.
Ah, the old, "I'm only doing research" defense.
ReplyDeleteOf course, the Protties have their toe in this filthy water too:
Henry Edgington, a pastor at the Elm Mott Church of Christ in Waco, Texas has been arrested on seven counts of possession of child pornography. The porn was found in a locked box in the pastor bathroom by his son's fiancee. Edgington claims to be doing research in an effort to try and get child pornography sites off the Internet.
Let me simplify my position. Pelosi should be viciously attacked by the Administration and the Republicans. A deterioration between what remains of a secular Turkey and the US plays into the hands of the Islamists. It can set back the little, but obvious, progress being made in Iraq against AQ. Where is the upside for the US in it's effort to isolate Iran by alienating Turkey? Where is the upside in aiding Putin in his quest to renew Russian Soviet style influence in the Middle East?
ReplyDeleteCurrent US policy in Iraq is based on working with a very recent enemy once called the Sunni insurgency. The whole idea may be flawed but the big picture is to weaken the Islamist influence and broaden and foster an Islamic secularism.
Embarrassing and weakening Turkey does not do that. Pelosi, not too long ago showed her hand in a visit to Syria.. Pelosi is at war with who?
Turkey and the US on collision course
ReplyDeletePublished: October 14 2007 18:38 | Last updated: October 14 2007 18:38
Financial Times
"Collisions between allies rarely come much bigger than the current spat between the US and Turkey: Ankara has recalled its ambassador to Washington, outraged at a vote in Congress declaring the massacres of Armenians by Ottoman Turks in 1915 to be genocide.
The vote, by the foreign affairs committee of the House of Representatives, has yet to go to a full vote and does not reflect the view of the Bush administration, which lobbied fiercely against it. Indeed, eight former secretaries of state signed a letter to Nancy Pelosi, the House speaker, warning of repercussions for US national security.
Ms Pelosi and the main sponsor of the bill, Adam Schiff, who both represent Californian districts with big Armenian populations, brushed all this aside. Now for the fall-out.
The relationship between these Nato allies had already deteriorated as a result of the US invasion of Iraq and policy in the Middle East. The architects of the Iraq war are still angry about the Turkish parliament’s refusal to allow the US to open a northern front from Turkey’s soil. Turkey is incensed by the occupation’s consecration of a de facto state in Iraqi Kurdistan, which it believes encourages secession by Kurds in south-east Turkey, and is a base to relaunch insurgency by the Kurdistan Workers’ Party.
After the Armenian vote, Ankara is likely to ignore US pleas and send in its forces to flush out the rebels, opening a new front in the multi-sided civil war in Iraq and further destabilising the region. Turkey may also start to sever links with the US military and deny it the use of the Incirlik base, one of the main conduits for American troops and supplies into Iraq.
But the worst of it is that nine out of 10 Turks are now hostile to the US, whose policies are feeding a revival of rightwing nationalism and radical Islam. These are not problems that will be resolved by gesture politics in the US Congress.
The Turkish republic of Ataturk is not responsible for the atrocities committed against the Armenians by the Ottoman Empire. But nor can it evade this blood-soaked chapter of Turkish history.
Recep Tayyip Erdogan, the prime minister, has called on international scholars to establish the facts and offered them access to the Ottoman archives. Nothing has happened because his neo-Islamist government has been locked in a test of wills with the army – which regards itself as the guardian of national honour. Modern Turkey needs to settle this account with history. It will not do so if it believes foreigners are out to do down the country resurrected from Ottoman ruins."
This comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteHere is one of the Pelosi supporters, Taiwan born Congressman David Wu (D, Oregon) Wú Zhènwěi is his real name , who along with Hungarian born US Congressman Tom Lantos, is pushing this international incident in the making.
ReplyDeleteI'm waiting for Dennis Kucinich to weigh in on all of this. Without the opinion of Mr. Kucinich one is operating without the full light on the subject. Like Pelosi, Dennis has 'on the ground' experience in the Middle East, and must know what he is talking about.:(
ReplyDeleteIf they are out to screw up our relations with Turkey, it seems so far they are doing a fair job of it. A resolution like this, I read, has been introduced in Congress after Congress, but only now is it getting some traction.
I wonder what Wu's position is on the US defending Taiwan, if it should come to that. He seems a good advertisement for having only native born congress folk.
The fact that the PKK is operating out of Iraq, that is a US failure.
ReplyDeleteBith military and political.
mat tells US that there are "only" 4,000 of them. Twice the number of operatives that aQIraq has been able to field in Iraq.
Again, if we check out the news releaces from the MNF-Iraq, we see that Peacekeeping & Police mission continues apace, the news from:
Sunday, 14 October 2007
Iraqi Army, USSOF detain five suspected AQI near Taji
EFPs, weapons caches discovered in eastern Baghdad
MND-B Soldiers attacked (Baghdad)
Soldier dies in non-combat related incident (Tikrit)
Coalition forces help Iraqi boy (Baghdad)
Violence reduced in Baghdad
Weapons caches seized in Rashid
Surge Soldiers revel in successful operation (Arab Jabour)
IED triggerman apprehended by IPs after wounding children (Tuz)
Program allows detainees to be released during Ramadan
No new offensives, no moves against the PKK or its' infrastructure.
If the US moved against the PKK, that would placate the Turds, for at least another cycle.
That Mr Bush cedes the inititive to Ms Pelosi, that's his bad, as well.
Team 43 fails to take the inititive, fails to force events, They are surfing, not sailing, let alone power boating.
Here it comes, the "Beginning" of the End
ReplyDeleteAl-Qaeda In Iraq Reported Crippled
Many Officials, However, Warn Of Its Resilience
By Thomas E. Ricks and Karen DeYoung
Washington Post Staff Writers
Monday, October 15, 2007; Page A01
The U.S. military believes it has dealt devastating and perhaps irreversible blows to al-Qaeda in Iraq in recent months, leading some generals to advocate a declaration of victory over the group, which the Bush administration has long described as the most lethal U.S. adversary in Iraq.
But as the White House and its military commanders plan the next phase of the war, other officials have cautioned against taking what they see as a premature step that could create strategic and political difficulties for the United States. Such a declaration could fuel criticism that the Iraq conflict has become a civil war in which U.S. combat forces should not be involved. At the same time, the intelligence community, and some in the military itself, worry about underestimating an enemy that has shown great resilience in the past.
We cannot declare "Victory", or we'd have to admit success, and begin to leave.
The Occupation has become it's own Federal Program, that once begun, can never end.
Always preparing another point of light to save US from the dark.
This comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteBut the worst of it is that nine out of 10 Turks are now hostile to the US,..
ReplyDeleteFrom my experience, I'd say that was the case for long time. At least 15 years.
Much like the invasion occupation and annexation of Cypress, this move has been planed for a long time. There's nothing new on the ground with regards to the PKK, except that now the Turks think the timing is opportune. The question to ask is why do the Turks think the timing is opportune, and what must be done to dissuade them of that.
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteJust how prostrated do you think the US should get, bob, while washing Mr Gul's feet?
ReplyDeleteAfter being abused in 2003, the US stood to it's task, writing checks of tribute, to Turkey.
There was no retribution meted to those backstabbing mussulmen, only meek compliance to their newest demands.
To allow the Battle of Iraq, which is militarily over, but for the DC and Baghdad politicos, to serve as the bell weather for US strategic policies is compounding an error.
The US should move substantial forces into the Turd/Iraq border region, shutting down PKK operations. If the Kurdish people are as presented, they will assist US in this endevour. Better performance should be expected than the 1920 Brigades now provide US in Anbar.
The Islamists win in Turkey, then the EBar waivers on speaking to the historical truths. Truths that speak to the barbarity of Islamic behaviour towards Christians, in the 20th Century.
If the "Problem is Islam"
then the problem is Turkey.
The idea that we should side with the French conservatitives, like Mr Nicolas Sarkozy, should not be rejected.
Or is our need for Turkey is so vital to US that we cannot reject their terms for further US dhimmitude.
DR: Al-Qaeda In Iraq Reported Crippled
ReplyDeletePay no attention to that bad news behind the curtain!
Iraq bombs and shootings kill at least 32
BAGHDAD (AFP) — A wave of violence across Iraq, including the bombing of a minibus filled with Shiite worshippers and a suicide truck bomb attack on a police station, has killed 32 people, officials said Sunday.
Not "Militarily Signifigant", Ms T
ReplyDeleteRandom acts of violence, that takes a police force to control.
Babbin's
ReplyDeleteView of Pelosi
Did the United States Government have a policy of genocide against the Native Americans here? There's a question that can be debated forever. The answer from most of the folks at KGO radio would be a resounding yes. Did the Sioux have a policy of genocide against the Crow? The answers are murky.
ReplyDeleteFrom my reading of history, bob, from Adrew Jackson on through about 1900, yeah, genocide would be the word.
ReplyDeleteThen an aphartide of sorts, from then 'til the present.
Reservations of forced socialism, mismanagement and fraud perpetrated upon them by their conquerers and occupiers.
Now recompenced by "Gaming" which is seemingly reasonable payback for all those years of false "Soveriegnty"
I'm the last one would say it was good. And I basically agree. Out where I'm at, at first, the Army came in to stop the whites and reds from having at it. In other words sort of like UN peacekeepers. But it didn't last long, and Chief Joseph, a decent man and humorous too they say, man who just wanted to be left alone, got chased towards Canada, after some reds from another band of his tribe killed some whites down on the Salmon River country. Long way around. A long complex story. There wasn't any law. The only thing I can think of that came close to a property right around here was a very informal system they had of dividing the river up into traditional fishing areas for certain families. Away from the river, it was a state of nature.
ReplyDeleteSmall pox and the other diseases very definitely had a policy of genocide towards the natives.
These days around here things are going along about as well as can be expected. They are lawyered up now, big time:)
These whites kids that harassed the Indian girl here recently, they are going for a fall, for instance.
Today is the first day of Drew Carey on 'Price Is Right', a day to mark down as a day to remember in our American history books, my wife says:)
Hardeharhar
ReplyDeleteCraig whines that 'Romney threw me under a bus'!
What do you expect him to do, Larry you turd, embrace the conduct?
Bob Barker retired, grew up on the Rosebud Indian Reservation.
ReplyDeleteFOX News reports that the Turds are voting, now, to authorize the use of force, in Iraq, to combat terrorism in Turkey.
ReplyDeleteIf mat is correct, and the PKK is an action arm of the Turds Intel Servic, the Authorization will pass.
2164th,
ReplyDeleteWith respect to the previous thread on Sanchez I thought of you as I read this Sunday NY Times article. A brief excerpt:
" Discussions nonetheless focused on where young officers might draw a “red line,” the point at which they would defy a command from the civilians — the president and the defense secretary — who lead the military.
“We have an obligation that if our civilian leaders give us an order, unless it is illegal, immoral or unethical, then we’re supposed to execute it, and to not do so would be considered insubordinate,” said Major Timothy Jacobsen, another student. “How do you define what is truly illegal, immoral or unethical? At what point do you cross that threshold where this is no longer right, I need to raise my hand or resign or go to the media?”"
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/10/14/us/14army.html?pagewanted=2&adxnnl=1&adxnnlx=1192464101-7rssmIz7ckPnaLTHwqjD7g
You might find the whole article interesting. In particular I'm curious on the ability of a general to resign. A soldier cannot just resign if he disagrees with things - that would be desertion, no? A general, leaving aside how much they have invested in their career to get to that point, can they just quit? Do they need give a least two weeks notice?
On Armenia's genocide. I'll agree that congress really isn't the place to debate such historical questions but to argue simply that we shouldn't acknowledge a historical truth because of foreign policy initiatives is...wrong. Fudging history to serve political goals was one of our criticisms of the Soviets. We shouldn't go down that path as well.
Spengler in Asia Times has a scathing article on this issue and Iraq. I think him and Mats would find some agreement with parts of the article- especially the stuff about breaking up Iraq and fomenting further conflict in the region.
A short excerpt:
"Kurdish nationhood will be the likely outcome of Iraq’s breakup. Ethnic Kurds comprise a full fifth of Turkey’s population, and the existence of a Kurdish nation will exercise a gravitational pull upon Kurds in Turkey. Turkey fears with good reason for its national integrity. If the American Congress accuses the Turkey of genocide against the Armenians (as 22 countries already have), the Kurds will have a stronger argument for autonomy - despite the fact that the Kurds dominate eastern Turkey precisely because they slaughtered the Armenians. The Kurds may not deserve nationhood, but “’Deserves’ got nothing to do with it,” as Clint Eastwood’s character offered in the movie Unforgiven."
http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Middle_East/IJ16Ak02.html
"despite the fact that the Kurds dominate eastern Turkey precisely because they slaughtered the Armenians."
ReplyDeleteAh, jeez, nothing is simple in the Mid-East, just like deuce said. Go back far enough, everybody seems to have something on everybody else.
The Turks say the Armenians were traitors and fifth columnists and consorted with the enemy.
damn tough finding someone with a white hat...
ReplyDeleteAgreed.
ReplyDeleteThe question we should be concentrating on is will Drew Carey continue Bob Barker's tradition of ending the program with--"Help control the pet population-have your pets spayed or neutered."
ReplyDeleteI can report Drew Carey has carried on the hallowed tradition--"Help control the pet population, have your pets spayed or neutered"!
ReplyDeleteIt was the Turks that instigated the Armenian genocide. Unfortunately, some ethnic Kurds made up part of that Turkish army.
ReplyDeleteI remember during the "Destruction of Lebanon by the Joos"
ReplyDeletea few years back some history of how some of the groups somewhere got on the wrong side in earlier dustups, just like the Kurds, but I forgot which ones did what.
Time for Mat's Lebanon for Dummies!
For Cubans, a Twisting New Route to the U.S.
ReplyDeleteThe island of Isla Mujeres has become a stepping stone to the United States for many Cubans who believe that a route through Mexico boosts their odds of reaching Miami.
Top Air Force Official Dies in Apparent Suicide
The official, who was under scrutiny over pay he received from a private contractor, was found dead at his home in Virginia.
Turkey Moves Closer to an Incursion Into Iraq
Tensions mounted today as the Turkish government sought parliamentary approval for military action in northern Iraq.
Doug,
ReplyDeleteThe Maronites Christians. They were on the right side, but got a little carried away. Sharon got blamed for it though, so it’s all good.
Thomas Sowell on Pelosi etal.
ReplyDeletePKK KILLED NOT ONLY TURKISH SOLDIERS BUT ALSO INNOCENT KURDISH PEOPLE. I'M SURE, TURKIS ARMY WILL EXTIRPATE THIS PLAGUE. PKK IS TERROR. MANY INNOCENT PEOPLE ARE DAMAGED IN TURKEY BECAUSE OF PKK. PKK SEE ONLY DREAM, TURKISH PEOPLE ARE CLAMPED TOGETHER AGAİNST TERROR-PKK
ReplyDelete