tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21297199.post8697349071501073682..comments2024-03-28T06:32:24.557-04:00Comments on The Elephant Bar: Hezbollah in large-scale confrontation with Sunni Muslim fighters from the al-Nusra front, many of whose fighters have come from other Middle Eastern and Central Asian countries. Deuce ☂http://www.blogger.com/profile/13472858446242700869noreply@blogger.comBlogger112125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21297199.post-6467234017279795572013-05-31T08:04:36.004-04:002013-05-31T08:04:36.004-04:00I think I'll go fix some coffee.
Yeah, Q, you...I think I'll go fix some coffee.<br /><br />Yeah, Q, you can be a sheeple, if you want, believe the propaganda, if you wish.<br />Or you can look at the ground, see the dirt.<br /><br />;-)desert rathttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02369546288659566961noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21297199.post-14130690898054932312013-05-31T05:24:31.023-04:002013-05-31T05:24:31.023-04:0018% of California's electricity came from non-...18% of California's electricity came from non-large hydro Renewables, yesterday.<br /><br /><a href="http://content.caiso.com/green/renewrpt/20130530_DailyRenewablesWatch.pdf" rel="nofollow">CaISO</a>Rufus IIhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05297231055991566183noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21297199.post-67730641190707163172013-05-31T00:55:18.124-04:002013-05-31T00:55:18.124-04:00.
There were demonstrations against the governmen....<br /><br /><i>There were demonstrations against the government, agreed. <br />But demonstrations do not a civil war make.</i><br /><br />The rat denies the evolution of the war.<br /><br /><i>The Muslim Brotherhood did not have a significant initial role in the 2011 uprising in Syria which began in March 2011,[10][11] and protest crowds sometimes explicitly rejected any identification with political Islamists and with the Muslim Brotherhood specifically (such as the large protest in Jasem, Daraa, on April 28, 2011).[12] The Syrian uprising's core population of protesters came from a younger generation which had come of age in a Syria without significant Muslim Brotherhood presence.[13]</i> <br /><br />From another WIKI article on the MB.<br /><br /><br />Rat says there was no civil war merely demonstration. WIKI disputes that and considers the precipitating events starting in early 2011 as part of the whole.<br /><br />The rat says it could not be defined as a civil war. Dictionary.com, Merriam Webster, and the Free Dictionary all agree that it could be defined as a civil war, <i>"a war between political factions or regions within the same country."</i><br /><br />Rat says that there can be no civil war without combat. However, he ignores the fact that the UN says that there were thousands of deaths in 2011. He also ignores the fact that deserters from the Syrian army formed the FSA in August, 2011 and were engaged in actual, dare I say it, 'combat', first slowly attacking depots and convoys but in the period September through the end of the year attacking and taking sections of towns like Rastan, Idlib, and Jabal al-Zawiya. To argue that Syrian army deserters weren't locals is silly.<br /><br />As for outside players, they talked a lot, formed a lot of groups, but did little until 2012. It was 2012 when the battle started to accelerate as various nations looking to advance their own agendas based on sectarian and regional goals became more involved. However, to say there was no combat by the locals in 2011 is put to the lie by the facts.<br /><br />Let's see,<br /><br />The rat says there was no civil war in 2011. Wiki and others disagree.<br /><br />The rat says there wasn't any combat to justify calling it a civil war in 2011. The facts say otherwise.<br /><br />The rat says <i>"Internationalized, from day one"</i> yet as proof offers 'duscussions', 'plans', 'requests' and 'offers' from various groups dated at the end of 2011. That is, of course when he bothers to show a date or indicate the source.<br /><br />Hmmm.<br /><br />The rat. Wiki.<br /><br />The rat. Dictionary.com<br /><br />The rat. The UN.<br /><br />The rat. The FSA.<br /><br />The rat. The facts. <br /><br />It's a toughy.<br /><br />:)<br /><br />I think I'll go to bed.<br /><br />.<br /><br /> <br /><br />Quirkhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00272168240606512672noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21297199.post-87843074732351879052013-05-30T22:40:33.092-04:002013-05-30T22:40:33.092-04:0025 Nov 2011
At the meeting, which was held in Ist...<i> 25 Nov 2011<br /><br />At the meeting, which was held in Istanbul and included Turkish officials, the Syrians requested "assistance" from the Libyan representatives and were offered arms, and potentially volunteers.<br /><br />"There is something being planned to send weapons and even Libyan fighters to Syria," said a Libyan source, speaking on condition of anonymity. "There is a military intervention on the way. Within a few weeks you will see."<br /><br />The Telegraph has also learned that preliminary discussions about arms supplies took place when members of the Syrian National Council [SNC] – the country's main opposition movement – visited Libya earlier this month.<br /><br />"The Libyans are offering money, training and weapons to the Syrian National Council," added Wisam Taris, a human rights campaigner with links to the SNC.<br /><br />The disclosure came as rebels raided an air force base outside the city of Homs and killed six pilots, according to a statement by the country's military. </i>desert rathttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02369546288659566961noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21297199.post-8813330636228289522013-05-30T22:31:09.132-04:002013-05-30T22:31:09.132-04:00I do not think so, Q.
There were demonstrations a...I do not think so, Q.<br /><br />There were demonstrations against the government, agreed. <br />But demonstrations do not a civil war make.<br /><br />Were the initial demonstrations legitimate, did they have cause, surely they did. Assad is an authoritative minority ruler of a nation that has been radicalizing along sectarian lines for decades.<br /><br />But civil war requires combat. Armed rebellion against the government.<br /><br />That was not localized, but foreign, from the beginning.<br />Fighters native to Libya, with combat experience fighting US in Iraq were financed by Qatar and started the armed rebellion.<br /><br />The protests were local, the civil war, that required external support from the very beginning.desert rathttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02369546288659566961noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21297199.post-88518210833323197612013-05-30T22:25:52.441-04:002013-05-30T22:25:52.441-04:00the fact that this renegade army of Syrian army de...<i>the fact that this renegade army of Syrian army deserters, mercenaries and volunteers, has begun organizing into military frameworks of companies, battalions and brigades, indicates it numbers thousands.<br />Still, our military sources do not credit reports of thousands of deserters per week. Western intelligence officials believe that no more than 4,000 soldiers have so far gone AWOL.<br />They receive military training from Western, Turkish and Arab army instructors, as well as civilian security consultants and ex-special forces trainers from the US, Britain, France, Italy, Saudi Arabia, Jordan and Qatar.<br />Every camp has a Turkish commander whose staff report to the US joint headquarters directing the Syrian Revolt from the Turkish town of Gaziantep, as we reported last week.</i>desert rathttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02369546288659566961noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21297199.post-32484727398041288792013-05-30T22:23:54.254-04:002013-05-30T22:23:54.254-04:0023DEC2011
The cards stacked against the deserter ...23DEC2011<br /><br /><i>The cards stacked against the deserter force were further augmented this week: Two Russian spy satellites monitoring military movements in the eastern Mediterranean, Turkey, Israel and Syria began feeding Syrian President Bashar Assad‘s strategists precise intelligence on FSA units in Turkey and rebel concentrations within Syrian cities, our military sources report.<br />This new resource enabled the special Syrian armored forces stationed along the Syria-Turkey border to waylay the deserters moving back and forth, capturing some and liquidating many.</i><br /><br />From the very beginning, Turkey offered safe haven to the terrorists.<br />Internationalized, from day one.desert rathttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02369546288659566961noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21297199.post-11391250778339796672013-05-30T22:21:52.453-04:002013-05-30T22:21:52.453-04:00The Kurdistan National Assembly ...
In December, ...The Kurdistan National Assembly ...<br /><br /><i>In December, FBI whistleblower Sibel Edmonds said American and NATO forces had been training Syrian rebels in southeastern Turkish city of Hakkari since May of last year, Press TV reported.<br /><br />Edmonds further stated US was actively smuggling arms into Syria from Incirlik military base in Turkey, as well as financing Syrian rebels.<br /><br />“I think it’s clear that NATO is behind this and the US is part of NATO”, says Nate Hiller of Charlotte, N.C.<br /><br />The charges first appears after the website Wikileaks recently published a document that revealed that there are “covert operations” underway by U.S. and NATO forces inside Syria, against the government.<br /><br />In a private message now released, an analyst working for the Texan company, Stratfor, says that in December of last year, he attended a meeting at the Pentagon where he heard that U.S. /NATO soldiers were “inside Syria” providing training to armed rebels.<br /><br />On the 3rd Thursday, President Assad said that “foreign troops were trying to weaken the Syrian government.” Since mid-March 2011, Syria has faced violence that has resulted in hundreds dead, including many soldiers and security agents. Syria has blamed "mercenaries, armed saboteurs and terrorists" for the assaults resulting in the deaths of hundreds of people. These attacks are being “orchestrated from abroad”, according to Russian officials who appear to be feeding intelligence information to Syrian officials outlining US covert actions to destabilize the country and achieve its stated goal of “regime change”.</i>desert rathttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02369546288659566961noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21297199.post-32006428353454684502013-05-30T22:10:06.006-04:002013-05-30T22:10:06.006-04:0030 December, 2011
Shock ! Qatar mobilizes merc ...<i>30 December, 2011 <br /><br /><br />Shock ! Qatar mobilizes merc army in Turkey to overthrow Assad regime in Syria<br /><br />Qatar Creates 20000 strong Anti-Syria Mercenary Force based in Turkey, Israeli Media Reports.</i>desert rathttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02369546288659566961noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21297199.post-89027648169296536392013-05-30T21:51:18.845-04:002013-05-30T21:51:18.845-04:00riiiight, and they hate US for our freedoms and Be...riiiight, and they hate US for our freedoms and Benghazi was sparked by a baaaad video.Ashhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16688752302081088907noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21297199.post-49944931283138640082013-05-30T21:49:31.142-04:002013-05-30T21:49:31.142-04:00For the United States and its allies, the first ch...For the United States and its allies, the first challenge is creating a united delegation from an opposition that has always been anything but united.<br /><br />¶ The Syrian Coalition has been plagued by internal turmoil since its inception in late 2011.<br /><br />¶ The group has failed to deliver on most of its promises, ranging from distributing humanitarian aid to areas outside government control, to creating a unified military command, to becoming a serious government-in-exile.<br /><br />¶ Instead the uneasy, distrustful members — dominated by long-exiled members of the Muslim Brotherhood, academics living abroad for decades and political activists fleeing Syria — have spent most of their time in luxury hotels arguing over which faction should claim what responsibility.<br /><br />¶ The coalition’s problems have not been lost on Mr. Assad, who spoke contemptuously of his political adversaries in the Al-Manar television interview, describing them as exiles and paid stooges of hostile foreign governments — another indication that prospects for the Geneva conference are dim.<br /><br />¶ “We will attend this conference as the official delegation and legitimate representatives of the Syrian people,” he said. “But, whom do they represent? When this conference is over, we return to Syria, we return home to our people. But when the conference is over, whom do they return to — five-star hotels?”<br /><br />For the United States and its allies, the first challenge is creating a united delegation from an opposition that has always been anything but united.<br /><br />¶ The Syrian Coalition has been plagued by internal turmoil since its inception in late 2011.<br /><br />¶ The group has failed to deliver on most of its promises, ranging from distributing humanitarian aid to areas outside government control, to creating a unified military command, to becoming a serious government-in-exile.<br /><br />¶ Instead the uneasy, distrustful members — dominated by long-exiled members of the Muslim Brotherhood, academics living abroad for decades and political activists fleeing Syria — have spent most of their time in luxury hotels arguing over which faction should claim what responsibility.<br /><br />¶ The coalition’s problems have not been lost on Mr. Assad, who spoke contemptuously of his political adversaries in the Al-Manar television interview, describing them as exiles and paid stooges of hostile foreign governments — another indication that prospects for the Geneva conference are dim.<br /><br />¶ “We will attend this conference as the official delegation and legitimate representatives of the Syrian people,” he said. “But, whom do they represent? When this conference is over, we return to Syria, we return home to our people. But when the conference is over, whom do they return to — five-star hotels?”Ashhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16688752302081088907noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21297199.post-64129049132672453082013-05-30T21:46:19.296-04:002013-05-30T21:46:19.296-04:00.
How could any place that has been held by varie....<br /><br /><i>How could any place that has been held by varied foreign rulers for decades, even hundreds of years, not be riven with international tensions and loyalties?</i><br /><br />Nothing I have said denies your point. <br /><br />My initial post, which began this discussion a couple days ago, was speaking specifically of the Syrian Civil War, a war which WIKI states <i>began on 15 March 2011, with popular demonstrations that grew nationwide by April 2011.</i><br /><br />Was Bashar Assad continuing many of the policies and abuses that were started under his father. Yes, but these were policies and abuses that affected the local population. The policies that spurred the people to action were not arms deals with Russia, they were policies that affected the local population. The other factors I mentioned also were local. They were factors that affected the people's demands for political reform, protest against ongoing economic reforms, and those affecting their standard of living. Local issues all. The Syrian Civil War started out as protests against a government and its abuses that directly affected the local Syrian population. <br /><br />It stayed local through 2011 when it began morphing into a regional conflict with new players as sectarian and nationalistic factors starting coming more to the fore. Eventually, it drew in more international players.<br /><br />International 'supporters' did not start the current conflict. It started locally by local populations. That regional and international players took a growing role over time does not change that fact.<br /><br />.Quirkhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00272168240606512672noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21297199.post-57630366015003249072013-05-30T21:17:26.929-04:002013-05-30T21:17:26.929-04:00If it started in 1976 or 1930, well, then today...If it started in 1976 or 1930, well, then today's fighting is part of a series of internal conflicts, that have gathered international supporters on both sides of the internal fight, since the beginning of the conflict, back in the day.desert rathttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02369546288659566961noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21297199.post-65203634641883443712013-05-30T21:09:21.048-04:002013-05-30T21:09:21.048-04:00Where does Syria end and Hezbollah's Lebanon b...Where does Syria end and Hezbollah's Lebanon begin?<br /><br />desert rathttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02369546288659566961noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21297199.post-13374038289061001102013-05-30T21:05:18.855-04:002013-05-30T21:05:18.855-04:00But then, Q, if it is a fact that the Syrian Civil...But then, Q, if it is a fact that the Syrian Civil War started in March of 2011, it was internationalized from the very start.<br /><br />Which was ash's point, was it not?<br /><br />The Russians, Saudi, and Qatarians were all there prior to March 2011.<br />The Iranians were there, prior to March 2011.<br /><br />The Muslim Brotherhood, with its foreign connections, there in Syria, for decades prior to March 2011.<br /><br />ash is right, if you are correct and the Civil War started in March 2011, it started internationalized.desert rathttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02369546288659566961noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21297199.post-83864226996761400862013-05-30T20:58:52.888-04:002013-05-30T20:58:52.888-04:00All in the name, aye?
Wiki knows word games
;-)All in the name, aye?<br /><br />Wiki knows word games<br /><br />;-)desert rathttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02369546288659566961noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21297199.post-18547087383843751792013-05-30T20:57:07.130-04:002013-05-30T20:57:07.130-04:00How could any place that has been held by varied f...How could any place that has been held by varied foreign rulers for decades, even hundreds of years, not be riven with international tensions and loyalties?<br /><br />Surrounded by adversaries and false flagged 'friends', Syria is another of the modern dysfunctional states designed and stood up by the Europeons, to be unstable and dysfunctional.<br /><br />How could anything in such a place be said to be totally 'internal'?desert rathttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02369546288659566961noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21297199.post-38201094734565970622013-05-30T20:52:24.531-04:002013-05-30T20:52:24.531-04:00.
You want an arbitrary start date to the sectari....<br /><br /><i>You want an arbitrary start date to the sectarian strife, when there is none.</i><br /><br />More nonsense from rat world. I do not want an arbitrary date for the 'sectarian violence'. I want a start date for the Syrian Civil War.<br /><br />If you say it doesn't exist, take it up with WIKI.<br /><br />.<br /><br /><br />Quirkhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00272168240606512672noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21297199.post-39016836919006140532013-05-30T20:47:57.208-04:002013-05-30T20:47:57.208-04:00You are the one that says what the US does today, ...You are the one that says what the US does today, referencing 'The War on Terror', will reverberate through out the impact area, for decades to come.<br /><br />We agree on that, it will.<br /><br />I do not understand why you do not agree that what happened in 1930 reverberates in the impact area, today.<br /><br />How is what we do today differ from what was done, by the Europeons, in the 1930's? <br />Their actions still reverberate, today.desert rathttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02369546288659566961noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21297199.post-88368196482890918732013-05-30T20:43:04.008-04:002013-05-30T20:43:04.008-04:00The 1930's was when the seeds of today's s...The 1930's was when the seeds of today's strife were planted, Q.<br />They did not pop from the ground, fully grown, in March of 2011<br /><br />Whether that bores you, or not, inconsequential.desert rathttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02369546288659566961noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21297199.post-82230295285705747492013-05-30T20:40:39.368-04:002013-05-30T20:40:39.368-04:00The Russian do not have to attack demonstrators, t...The Russian do not have to attack demonstrators, to be involved.<br /><br />No more than the US had to supply the troops that fired US manufactured tear gas at the demonstrators in Cairo, to be involved, there.<br /><br />The US was definitely involved in Egypt, the Russians in Syria.<br />Supplying the weapons used, is being involved.<br />The Saudi and Qatarians, too, qualify for being involved in Syria prior to March 2011.<br /><br /><br />You want an arbitrary start date to the sectarian strife, when there is none.<br /><br />desert rathttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02369546288659566961noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21297199.post-43059473580156376302013-05-30T20:36:32.617-04:002013-05-30T20:36:32.617-04:00.
I'm growing tired of hearing what happened ....<br /><br />I'm growing tired of hearing what happened back in the 1930's, rat.<br /><br />You like WIKI<br /><br />Here is the WIKI entry for the <i>Syrian Civil War</i>.<br /><br />http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Syrian_civil_war<br /><br />.Quirkhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00272168240606512672noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21297199.post-40825390319324410732013-05-30T20:29:47.853-04:002013-05-30T20:29:47.853-04:00Myself, I have no need to read that Hitler, as quo...Myself, I have no need to read that Hitler, as quot wrote, was right.<br /><br />Nor that his father was wrong.<br /><br />Once was enough for me to know that the Israeli admires the NAZI.<br /><br />We know that both the Israeli and the NAZI embrace the concept of <i>Lebensraum ("living space") as being a law of nature for all healthy and vigorous peoples of superior races ...</i>desert rathttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02369546288659566961noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21297199.post-61504216285207610432013-05-30T20:25:25.395-04:002013-05-30T20:25:25.395-04:00.
Nice googling, rat, but irrelevant to the point....<br /><br />Nice googling, rat, but irrelevant to the point we were arguing.<br /><br />We are talking about a specific military operation called the Syrian Civil War much as we talk about other military events that are identified similarly such as The Six-Day War or the 2nd Intafada. Throughout the past posts, I have been speaking of the precipitating factors leading to that specific conflict. <br /><br />You specifically mention the Russians when speaking of ‘all the players being in place’; however, I have yet to see a report from 2011 that said the Russians were attacking the demonstrators.<br /><br />Likewise, to accept your definition, that is, that Syria has been in a state of civil war since 1979, we would have to also argue that because of sectarian and religious divisions , India has been in a state of civil war for decades, that Iraq was in a state of civil war for all the years Hussein was in power, that Bahrain is currently in a state of civil war, that Saudi Arabia and Turkey are both in a state of civil war; heck, that Sweden is currently in a state of civil war because of the ongoing violence between atheists and agnostics.<br /><br />While you might believe that, I doubt there are many out there that would accept you definition.<br /><br />That sectarian tensions and violence are widespread throughout the ME is not in question. However, I doubt there are many who would consider the ongoing tension and battles between Turkey and the PKK stationed in Iraq, for instance, in the same way they would view the ongoing civil war in Syria.<br /><br />.<br />Quirkhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00272168240606512672noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21297199.post-50719496038432640392013-05-30T20:12:02.856-04:002013-05-30T20:12:02.856-04:00Funny that Yvette Talhamy, formerly of Haifa Unive...Funny that Yvette Talhamy, formerly of Haifa University, does not include the Jews of the state of Israel, Palestine on that list of a religious minorities ruling in the Islamic Arc.desert rathttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02369546288659566961noreply@blogger.com