tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21297199.post6870624230972382321..comments2024-03-28T06:32:24.557-04:00Comments on The Elephant Bar: "If al-Qaida was not in Iraq before we invaded, why did we invade?" Buchanan serves it up.Deuce ☂http://www.blogger.com/profile/13472858446242700869noreply@blogger.comBlogger24125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21297199.post-91515172653282256562008-04-08T20:29:00.000-04:002008-04-08T20:29:00.000-04:00Desert Rat: The Golden Chain reached to the Emirs ...Desert Rat: <B>The Golden Chain reached to the Emirs and Princes of Saudi Arabia.</B> <BR/><BR/>Who in turn buy their own protection by spreading their spare change around in the Beltway, or through buying military hardware produced in the districts of certain Senators.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21297199.post-13651684859330337222008-04-08T15:36:00.000-04:002008-04-08T15:36:00.000-04:00The Primacy of Islam over the sectarianism of that...The Primacy of Islam over the sectarianism of that faith was often spoken of, back in the early days at the BC.<BR/><BR/><BR/>The threat was a cabal of Islamic conspiritors, All the terrorists worked together, in common cause. With State sponsors.<BR/>Pakistan had sponsored the Taliban<BR/>Iran was sponsoring Hezzbollah, in all its many variations.<BR/>Iraq was paying $25,000 USD bonuses to the families of Palistinian homicide-bomber.<BR/><BR/>The Golden Chain reached to the Emirs and Princes of Saudi Arabia.<BR/><BR/>We went to War against Iraq, which was not involved in terrorism, as much as it was "easy pickins'".<BR/>First in a series<BR/><BR/>How to fight that War, was discussed<BR/>Proxies examined, theories postulated.<BR/><BR/>We are where we are.desert rathttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02369546288659566961noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21297199.post-25136821296979833022008-04-08T14:32:00.000-04:002008-04-08T14:32:00.000-04:00Bobal: After having given away the Southwest, Abso...Bobal: <B>After having given away the Southwest, Absolut celebrates with Gay Sex Upshot is, after drinking the Absolut, the sinner will probably forget the condom, and die of AIDS.</B><BR/><BR/>That would still be better than having to drink Pabst Blue Ribbon like they do in NASCAR States.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21297199.post-26257747798777420312008-04-08T14:10:00.000-04:002008-04-08T14:10:00.000-04:00The threat then expanded to all those "radical" Is...The threat then expanded to all those "radical" Islamists, to include the Mullahs of Iran.<BR/>Who were prepping to achieve nuclear military capacity.<BR/><BR/>This was deemed, "unacceptable" by the US.<BR/>It continues apace.<BR/>Despite the Authorization to Use Force, the US demurs. <BR/><BR/>So while War was authorized, for a variety of reasons the US stopped before the war was over. It is now in a quandry on how to continue.<BR/>Neither fighting, nor winning, a "war", but engaged in a "Mission Impossible" without the acting talent.desert rathttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02369546288659566961noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21297199.post-71673029085664808432008-04-08T14:00:00.000-04:002008-04-08T14:00:00.000-04:00I wouldn't say that, trish.It was that I beloeved ...I wouldn't say that, trish.<BR/>It was that I beloeved the US was attacked by a cabal of conspirators.<BR/>Originally led to believe that this cabal operated out of Afghanistan and were Saudi funded, motivated by a radical religious ideology, Wahhabism.<BR/><BR/>The United States declared that war powers were appropriate for the President to employ. <BR/><BR/><I>Introduction<BR/>Begun and held at the City of Washington on Wednesday, the third day of January, two thousand and one, a States Armed Forces against those responsible for the recent attacks launched against the United States.<BR/><BR/>Whereas, on September 11, 2001, acts of treacherous violence were committed against the United States and its citizens; and <BR/>Whereas, such acts render it both necessary and appropriate that the United States exercise its rights to self-defense and to protect United States citizens both at home and abroad; and <BR/>Whereas, in light of the threat to the national security and foreign policy of the United States posed by these grave acts of violence; and <BR/>Whereas, such acts continue to pose an unusual and extraordinary threat to the national security and foreign policy of the United States; and <BR/>Whereas, the President has authority under the Constitution to take action to deter and prevent acts of international terrorism against the United States: Now, therefore, be it <BR/>Resolved by the Senate and House of Representatives of the United States of America in Congress assembled, <BR/><BR/>Section 1 - Short Title<BR/>This joint resolution may be cited as the<B> 'Authorization for Use of Military Force'.</B><BR/><BR/><BR/>[edit] Section 2 - Authorization For Use of United States Armed Forces<BR/>(a) IN GENERAL- That the President is authorized to use all necessary and appropriate force <BR/><B> against those nations, organizations, or persons he determines planned, authorized, committed, or aided the terrorist attacks that occurred on September 11, 2001, or harbored such organizations or persons, in order to prevent any future acts of international terrorism against the United States by such nations, organizations or persons.</I></B><BR/><BR/>The case was made that there were operators, Osama, Doc Z, etc, that were the heart of the threat.<BR/>The Taliban were offered a "pass", if Osama were handed over.<BR/>The ISI had and continued to operate with the Taliban in Afghanistan.<BR/><BR/>The concept of the continued War, in preemptive defense, called for the destruction of those States that, <B><I>"... or harbored such organizations or persons, in order to prevent any future acts of international terrorism against the United States ..."</I></B><BR/><BR/>This Authorization, plus Mr Frum's speaches, read by GWBush, outlined that the US would prosecute a major War in it's defense.<BR/><BR/>Iraq was just a battle in that War, as is Afghanistan, but the War, per the Authorization is much more expansive than just those two theaters.<BR/><BR/>War making, in defense of the US, that is justifiable to a librarian.<BR/>Destruction, in an expedited manner, of the enemy is what War is about.<BR/><BR/>The occuppation of Iraq is not part of the "War" but now has become an end unto itself.<BR/><BR/>I'm opposed to a militarilry extended US empire, but had been supportive of war against those threats that were posed to US and their hastened destruction.<BR/><BR/>Thus, as the Mission was proven to have changed, so did my oppossition to those that propound its' extention. For reasons that are unclear, as relates to the original mission.<BR/><BR/>This is also true in regards the Resolution to Use Force in Irag.<BR/><BR/>So, as the Government abuses its' authority, both in its' warmaking misjudgements or its' refusal to defend the southern frontier of the US, so does my oppossition to the men running the Government.<BR/><BR/>When I turned 18, back in '73, I registered as a Libertarian, because of the ideology, not the people.<BR/><BR/>To participate in the Primaries, in AZ, one must belong to the Party to vote. To have some affect in local elections, I registered as a GOPer, in the 80's, after I returned to the US.<BR/><BR/>My ideology had become tempered by a large dose of reality.desert rathttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02369546288659566961noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21297199.post-69209285446495379382008-04-08T13:31:00.000-04:002008-04-08T13:31:00.000-04:00Bob and Whit,You are both correct in that we have ...Bob and Whit,<BR/><BR/>You are both correct in that we have already scrambled the eggs.Deuce ☂https://www.blogger.com/profile/13472858446242700869noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21297199.post-16182874830149665652008-04-08T13:19:00.000-04:002008-04-08T13:19:00.000-04:00I've noticed--just as a very rough general rule--t...I've noticed--just as a very rough general rule--that moslems with moustaches are a small cut above those with beards, in my sense of things.Bobhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04145155737835511824noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21297199.post-29659283020955777762008-04-08T13:05:00.000-04:002008-04-08T13:05:00.000-04:00All true, but what's the cost if we leave? I'm not...All true, but what's the cost if we leave? I'm not sure of the answer.<BR/>---<BR/>Iran announced 6,000 new centrafuges today, as a side note.Bobhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04145155737835511824noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21297199.post-47836816865954444822008-04-08T13:04:00.000-04:002008-04-08T13:04:00.000-04:00"It was at that point that the next Phase line had..."It was at that point that the next Phase line had to be determined, while some advocated "On to Damascus" or driving into the Iranian oilfields as the next objective."<BR/><BR/>I've got a theory, Rat, that your newfound libertarianism, such as it is, is principally a response to the administration's unwillingness to follow your questionable counsel in just this matter of expanding the war. Your libertarianism, in other words, is for the most part a bunch of sour grapes and has little if anything to do with a rejection of big government adventurism.<BR/><BR/>I don't know who or what ever led you to believe that either Syria or Iran were in the cards, though you surely are not the only one who anticipated either or who's been subsequently disappointed, but most of the disappointed don't then head off as a result into the fever swamps of conspiracy, which certainly has a greater hold on you than any fresh discovery of small government conservatism.trishhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14139410627244875589noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21297199.post-63250488735078100132008-04-08T13:00:00.000-04:002008-04-08T13:00:00.000-04:00Charlton Heston On Global WarmingRational? Prescie...<A HREF="http://youtube.com/watch?v=ozO4YB98mCY" REL="nofollow">Charlton Heston On Global Warming</A><BR/><BR/>Rational? Prescient? Apocalyptic? Crazy?Bobhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04145155737835511824noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21297199.post-42740277100254065932008-04-08T12:58:00.000-04:002008-04-08T12:58:00.000-04:00Let's do a little cost/benefit analysis and the th...Let's do a little cost/benefit analysis and the throw in an opportunity cost:<BR/><BR/><BR/>Iraq's invasion of Kuwait;<BR/><BR/>We already paid for that. During the process Saddam set fire to hundreds of oil wells. We put them out. The benefit to the US is a concession price on oil? No?<BR/><BR/>Marsh Arabs:<BR/><BR/>Actually Shiites. How many tens of billions are they worth to us? What benefit do we get from them? Aren't the Shiites in the south the smae who are in Basra?<BR/><BR/>Gassed Kurds:<BR/><BR/>That sounds like a UN mission to me a la Kosovo.<BR/><BR/>Al Gore and Democrats:<BR/><BR/>?<BR/><BR/>Oil for Food:<BR/><BR/>Show me one Arab or Muslim country that is not corrupt.<BR/><BR/>$25,000 rewards to families of Palestinian martyrs:<BR/><BR/>That was worthy of Saddam being assassinated. But was that a US obligation?<BR/><BR/>Saddam's bluffs:<BR/><BR/>No cost there.<BR/><BR/>Saddam's death wish:<BR/><BR/>He wanted to live and make a comeback.<BR/><BR/>September 11, 2001:<BR/><BR/>All the suspected hijackers were from Saudi Arabia, United Arab Emirates, Lebanon or Egypt. Iraq was one of the more secular states before the fall of Saddam. This is no longer so. Here is what the <A HREF="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jbPhTnQcNu0" REL="nofollow"> Shiites are now doing</A> in Basra. Saddam had to deal with a tough neighborhoodDeuce ☂https://www.blogger.com/profile/13472858446242700869noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21297199.post-46357842267389339252008-04-08T12:29:00.001-04:002008-04-08T12:29:00.001-04:00The Wholey Trinity:What would Reagan do?What would...The Wholey Trinity:<BR/>What would Reagan do?<BR/>What would the Muslim Farmer Do?<BR/>What would Doug Do?Doughttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16770268554450465514noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21297199.post-8151667322233338912008-04-08T12:29:00.000-04:002008-04-08T12:29:00.000-04:00After having given away the Southwest, Absolut cel...After having given away the Southwest, Absolut celebrates with <A HREF="http://www.worldnetdaily.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=61039" REL="nofollow">Gay Sex</A> Upshot is, after drinking the Absolut, the sinner will probably forget the condom, and die of AIDS.Bobhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04145155737835511824noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21297199.post-65275203449170661152008-04-08T12:21:00.000-04:002008-04-08T12:21:00.000-04:00I still say, if you've made a mistake and planted ...I still say, if you've made a mistake and planted a stinky spring wheat like that damned Larker, you still got to harvest it, best you can. Lest your accounts look even worse, at the end of the year.Bobhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04145155737835511824noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21297199.post-39320652538334175282008-04-08T12:19:00.000-04:002008-04-08T12:19:00.000-04:00John Adams prevented a war with France. When the F...John Adams prevented a war with France. When the French started messing with out shipping during the Revolution(their Revolution), and got into it with the British, there was a war fever in some quarters in our new nation to take on the French. Adams wasn't in favor of that, and diplomated his way around the idea.Bobhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04145155737835511824noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21297199.post-26783687448075895302008-04-08T11:59:00.000-04:002008-04-08T11:59:00.000-04:00What does it tell us that decades-old critiques of...<I>What does it tell us that decades-old critiques of American foreign policy seem so strikingly apt and useful in critiquing today’s “neoconservative” foreign policies? What it tells us, quite simply, is that what many consider the neoconservative aberration may not be such a great aberration after all. The tendencies associated these days with neoconservatism are more deeply rooted in American traditions than the critics care to admit, which means they will not so easily be uprooted, even by the coming epochal presidential election.<BR/><BR/>In fact, the problem for those who have sought to end this history of American expansiveness, both in decades past and today, is that this tendency toward expansion, this belief in the possibility of global transformation, this “messianic” impulse, far from being aberrant, is a dominant strain in the American character. It is certainly not the only tradition. There are counter-traditions, conservative, “republican,” pacifist, socialist, and realist. But in every generation these forces have done battle, and in almost every generation the expansive, moralistic, hubristic American approach has rolled over its critics, sometimes into victory and success, sometimes into disappointment and calamity.<BR/><BR/>What are the sources of its enduring power? One source is the American commitment to universal principles embedded in the nation’s founding documents, and the belief that these principles are not debatable but are, as Hamilton suggested, written in the stars by the hand of God. Americans believe they know the truth, and they do not admit alternate truths. Democracy is the only legitimate form of government, and America as the greatest democracy is the most legitimate of all. American foreign policy’s most astute critics have always understood that it is not conservatism but this liberal and progressive idealism that is the engine of American expansionism and hegemonism.<BR/>...<BR/>... The story of America’s first century is not one of virtuous restraint but of an increasingly powerful nation systematically eliminating all competitors on the North American continent. The story of its second century is not one of caution and a recognition of limits but of a steady and determined rise to global dominance. Patrick Henry failed to defeat the Constitution; John Randolph failed to stop the rush to war and big government in 1812; conservatives did not steer the nation away from Manifest Destiny or prevent war with Spain, or World War I, or the many interventions of the twentieth century. Five years after the end of the Vietnam War, which seemed to presage the rejection of the Achesonian principles that led to the intervention, Americans elected Ronald Reagan, who took up those principles again with a vengeance.<BR/><BR/>Today, many hope that the war in Iraq will quench once and for all Americans’ messianic impulses and their belief in the virtues of power. But will it? Are Americans, either Democrats or Republicans, prepared to forfeit either their power or their belief in America’s exceptional role in the world? Back in the 1960s, the historian Stanley Hoffmann posed a choice for Americans in the title of his book: Primacy or World Order? He knew then, and it remains true today, that for Americans this is not a choice. As the former French Foreign Minister Hubert Vedrine observed (during the Clinton administration), most “great American leaders and thinkers have never doubted for an instant that the United States was chosen by providence as the ‘indispensable nation’ and that it must remain dominant for the sake of humankind.” And as Robert W. Tucker observed (during the first Bush administration), Americans may have sought international order, but for them “international order implies [American] leadership.” That leadership imposes “special responsibilities others do not have,” but in the American view it also “confers a degree of freedom others do not enjoy.” As prominent liberal Democrat and former Clinton official Ivo Daalder has put it, “without American primacy—or something like it—it is doubtful that the rule of law can be sustained.”<BR/></I><BR/><BR/><B>Neocon Nation: Neoconservatism, c. 1776</B><BR/> <BR/><A HREF="http://www.worldaffairsjournal.org/Spring-2008/full-neocon.html" REL="nofollow">Robert Kagan</A><BR/>Rather interesting piecedesert rathttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02369546288659566961noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21297199.post-24824942832459160992008-04-08T10:19:00.000-04:002008-04-08T10:19:00.000-04:00Interesting read at westhawkCoulda, shoulda, would...Interesting read at westhawk<BR/><BR/>Coulda, shoulda, woulda ...desert rathttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02369546288659566961noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21297199.post-25216117079757057022008-04-08T09:29:00.000-04:002008-04-08T09:29:00.000-04:00The first phase line was passed when Saddam was ca...The first phase line was passed when Saddam was captured and his Army disbanded. <BR/>But the "War" was not over.<BR/><BR/>It was at that point that the next Phase line had to be determined, while some advocated "On to Damascus" or driving into the Iranian oilfields as the next objective. The US made a fateful decision to redisgned Iraqi socierty, such is the strength of US arms. That we could move to the end game, before the opening was finished<BR/><BR/>We bogged down, stuck to that Iraqi flypaper, until defeat in Anbar could be spun as a success.<BR/><BR/>Oh well, no one is respnsible and McCain's fifty years of experience will destroy the legacy that Ronnie Reagan left US, continuing the project that GWBush has begun.desert rathttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02369546288659566961noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21297199.post-91954140588059734502008-04-08T07:55:00.000-04:002008-04-08T07:55:00.000-04:00GWB has worked tirelessly to bring Democracy to Ba...GWB has worked tirelessly to bring Democracy to Baghdad, and Socialism to Washington.Doughttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16770268554450465514noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21297199.post-60748068208136640142008-04-08T07:30:00.000-04:002008-04-08T07:30:00.000-04:00What I love is the delusional view of the R's that...What I love is the delusional view of the R's that the Arabs are sitting around reading the Federalist Papers and Anti-Federalist Papers waiting for the USA to come sailing in a la LaFayette to their Sheikh George al Washington. McCain continues the fantasy.<BR/><BR/>Stuck. On. Stupid.Brother D-Dayhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11416004913872204554noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21297199.post-67829147414481703632008-04-08T07:29:00.000-04:002008-04-08T07:29:00.000-04:00We are told that if we start drawing down our forc...We are told that if we start drawing down our forces that al-Qaeda in Iraq will take over the country. A tiny Sunni minority will take over a Shi'ite majority country with a powerful, nearly nuclear Shi'ite neighbor.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21297199.post-40994300882851887542008-04-08T07:14:00.000-04:002008-04-08T07:14:00.000-04:00But if al-Qaida was not in Iraq before we invaded,...<I>But if al-Qaida was not in Iraq before we invaded, why did we invade? </I><BR/><BR/>Here we go, for the millionth time.<BR/><BR/><A HREF="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Invasion_of_Kuwait" REL="nofollow">Iraq's invasion of Kuwait</A><BR/><A HREF="http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&ct=res&cd=5&url=http%3A%2F%2Fnews.bbc.co.uk%2F1%2Fhi%2Fworld%2Fmiddle_east%2F1679035.stm&ei=hlD7R6n7K5CUggT1noUP&usg=AFQjCNG4gSI7HlzCpRM7Ee6ynxIvnnL4kg&sig2=OyVp_QrF-V4XAi-E8CIzWA" REL="nofollow">Marsh Arabs</A><BR/><A HREF="http://www.kdp.se/old/chemical.html" REL="nofollow">Gassed Kurds</A><BR/><A HREF="http://2164th.blogspot.com/2008/03/iraqs-ties-to-terrorism-prior-to-911.html" REL="nofollow">Al Gore and Democrats</A><BR/><A HREF="http://www.google.com/search?q=oil+for+food&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a" REL="nofollow">Oil for Food</A><BR/><A HREF="http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2003/03/13/wsad13.xml" REL="nofollow">$25,000 rewards to families of Palestinian martyrs.</A><BR/><A HREF="http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&ct=res&cd=5&url=http%3A%2F%2Ftranscripts.cnn.com%2FTRANSCRIPTS%2F0711%2F13%2Fsitroom.02.html&ei=E1D7R_LhLZPQggTvwOwO&usg=AFQjCNGzPmiwWWbsm0qkUuvaCMC6AuFMkg&sig2=h37CYYYuQREF1UqLy4efpw" REL="nofollow">Saddam's bluffs.</A><BR/><A HREF="http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&ct=res&cd=5&url=http%3A%2F%2Fnews.bbc.co.uk%2F1%2Fhi%2Fworld%2Fmiddle_east%2F1679035.stm&ei=hlD7R6n7K5CUggT1noUP&usg=AFQjCNG4gSI7HlzCpRM7Ee6ynxIvnnL4kg&sig2=OyVp_QrF-V4XAi-E8CIzWA" REL="nofollow">Saddam's death wish.</A><BR/>September 11, 2001.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21297199.post-62338217171485026202008-04-08T06:08:00.000-04:002008-04-08T06:08:00.000-04:00The Iraq war was won when Saddam was captured and ...The Iraq war was won when Saddam was captured and his WoMD programs were verifiably dismantled.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11132252460964519368noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21297199.post-31616564545986619342008-04-08T05:52:00.000-04:002008-04-08T05:52:00.000-04:00Wouldn't you love to see a Presidential debate mod...Wouldn't you love to see a Presidential debate moderated by Buchanan?Deuce ☂https://www.blogger.com/profile/13472858446242700869noreply@blogger.com