tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21297199.post5398870474846366808..comments2024-03-28T06:32:24.557-04:00Comments on The Elephant Bar: Another General Defers Doing the Honorable ThingDeuce ☂http://www.blogger.com/profile/13472858446242700869noreply@blogger.comBlogger53125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21297199.post-65245998989848766032007-10-13T21:43:00.000-04:002007-10-13T21:43:00.000-04:00BOBAL: A precipitous withdrawal will unquestionabl...BOBAL: <I>A precipitous withdrawal will unquestionably lead to chaos that would endanger the stability of the greater Middle East.</I> <BR/><BR/>As if the Middle East has ever been a paragon of normalcy and stability.<BR/><BR/><I>If this occurs it would have significant adverse effects on the international community</I><BR/><BR/>It's about time America returned the one-fingered salute the "international community" has been giving us for years.Teresitahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05528002521904908827noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21297199.post-77717721413344823862007-10-13T21:09:00.000-04:002007-10-13T21:09:00.000-04:00Teresita,Yon now says exactly the opposite thing, ...Teresita,<BR/>Yon now says exactly the opposite thing, re:<BR/>Military stopping reporters from entering Iraq.<BR/>...don't know if the A-Hole that kept him out is now gone, or what.Doughttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16770268554450465514noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21297199.post-58717954108123618322007-10-13T14:22:00.000-04:002007-10-13T14:22:00.000-04:00Oh, H/T to Gateway Pundit on the Sanchez statement...Oh, <BR/><BR/>H/T to Gateway Pundit on the Sanchez statement.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21297199.post-20605822315023086142007-10-13T14:20:00.000-04:002007-10-13T14:20:00.000-04:00The Part that Deuce alluded to, that the Media ign...<A HREF="http://www.democracy-project.com/archives/003494.html" REL="nofollow">The Part that Deuce alluded to,</A> that the Media ignored.<BR/><BR/>Good Job, Deuce. Oh, I think I'm going to take down my recent, most vile post. Not because of this. My personal attitude toward him remains the same; but, it was too far over the top for a thoughtful post such as Deuce's.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21297199.post-23618316212336302642007-10-13T13:37:00.000-04:002007-10-13T13:37:00.000-04:00Coyoteblog has a danged good question, concerning ...<A HREF="http://www.coyoteblog.com/coyote_blog/2007/10/i-honestly-dont.html" REL="nofollow">Coyoteblog</A> has a danged good question, concerning Democrats, and Turkey.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21297199.post-72735939606471356992007-10-13T12:54:00.000-04:002007-10-13T12:54:00.000-04:00This comment has been removed by the author.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21297199.post-24095892736798391702007-10-13T11:23:00.000-04:002007-10-13T11:23:00.000-04:00Seems the Turks went "Old School" in their attempt...Seems the Turks went "Old School" in their attempts to derail the Genocide theme being adopted by the US.<BR/><BR/><I>Inside Report: Turkey's Lobbyist<BR/>By Robert Novak<BR/><BR/>WASHINGTON -- Former Majority Leader Dick Gephardt, a registered lobbyist for Turkey, failed several months ago to get his successor as top House Democrat, Speaker Nancy Pelosi, to withdraw her support from a long-pending resolution condemning alleged Turkish genocide of Armenians in 1915.<BR/><BR/>The Bush administration had urged Congress not to offend Turkey, a U.S. ally, but the measure passed the House Foreign Affairs Committee Wednesday. Pelosi has pledged House action this year on the genocide resolution that in the past was blocked by Dennis Hastert, her Republican predecessor as speaker. <BR/><BR/>In addition to Gephardt, the Turkish government also hired a top Republican lobbyist: Bob Livingston, former chairman of the House Appropriations Committee. </I><BR/><BR/>The US Congress, following the Frenchies lead. Freedom fries all around, or now is it<BR/>"Viva la France!"<BR/><BR/>As we al rattle our sabres, together.desert rathttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02369546288659566961noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21297199.post-3426153374043986172007-10-13T11:09:00.000-04:002007-10-13T11:09:00.000-04:00That means, bob. truth be known, we continue to dr...That means, bob. truth be known, we continue to draw down, slowly through the end of '08, down to around 100,000 bodies at the first of the '09.<BR/><BR/>The withdrawa; continues at a slow pace, until the '09 Iraqi Elections. With the pace of pull out accelerating after that.<BR/><BR/>Down to a residual presence force of a size, yet to be determined, of about 50,000 troops, garrisoned in those big bases we built. By Jun '10. Seven years of Iraq, spun that we've won, saved from defeat by the democrats.desert rathttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02369546288659566961noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21297199.post-85045236876026016702007-10-13T11:06:00.000-04:002007-10-13T11:06:00.000-04:00The shovel is blunt, the soil hard, Rat. We're goi...The shovel is blunt, the soil hard, Rat. We're going hunting today. You folks all have a good day. Idaho will inevitably lose another football game today, too.Bobhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04145155737835511824noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21297199.post-7505151613714672412007-10-13T11:02:00.000-04:002007-10-13T11:02:00.000-04:00Keep on digging, bob.The "Way Forard" is always de...Keep on digging, bob.<BR/><BR/>The "Way Forard" is always defined by the Goals that are going to be obtained.<BR/><BR/>When the objective is political, the route is not military.<BR/><BR/>Using a hammer when a scalpel is needed. <BR/>They say though that if the only tool in the kit is a hammer, all the problems begin to be look like nailsdesert rathttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02369546288659566961noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21297199.post-1889358969075705192007-10-13T10:56:00.000-04:002007-10-13T10:56:00.000-04:00America has no choice but to continue our efforts ...America has no choice but to continue our efforts in Iraq. A precipitous withdrawal will unquestionably lead to chaos that would endanger the stability of the greater Middle East. If this occurs it would have significant adverse effects on the international community. Coalition and American force presence will be required at some level for the foreseeable future. Given the lack of a grand strategy we must move rapidly to minimize that force presence and allow the Iraqis maximum ability to exercise their soveriegnty in achieving a solution.<BR/><BR/>All right, but what exactly does this mean? 'American force presence will be required at some level for the foreseable future'--'we must move to minimize that force presence'--'allow the Iraqis maximum ability to exercise their soveriegnty'--?--exactly what to do?Bobhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04145155737835511824noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21297199.post-25795510316901591782007-10-13T10:47:00.000-04:002007-10-13T10:47:00.000-04:00The American military finds itself in an intractab...The American military finds itself in an intractable situation ... America has no choice but to continue our efforts in Iraq," said Sanchez, who works as a consultant training U.S. generals.Bobhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04145155737835511824noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21297199.post-3373003997288802912007-10-13T10:46:00.000-04:002007-10-13T10:46:00.000-04:00Dr. Sanchez says the man is sick but I see preciou...Dr. Sanchez says the man is sick but I see precious little in the way of a precise prescription for a cure.But he says we can't leave an unhealthy environment, would be unhealthy for us in the longer term. What he offers in the way of a cure seem to be all the old prescriptions--political reconciliation, synchronization of political, economic, military power etc. What's he think we ought to do exactly? Says we shouldn't leave now.Bobhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04145155737835511824noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21297199.post-87676115037843750122007-10-13T09:20:00.000-04:002007-10-13T09:20:00.000-04:002164th: ...his entire opening statement is a harsh...2164th: <I>...his entire opening statement is a harsh rebuke of the press and how the Iraq war is being reported. Not much is being reported about that at all. </I><BR/><BR/><A HREF="http://www.weeklystandard.com/Content/Public/Articles/000/000/012/844nigml.asp" REL="nofollow"><BR/>The Weekly Standard on censoring Iraq: <I>Why are there so few reporters with American troops in combat? Don't blame the media.</I></A><BR/><BR/><BR/>I get all my Iraq news from Rachel Maddow's "Life During Wartime" segment, that kicks off every show. The rest of the media just wants to talk about O.J., or Ann Coulter, or whether John Edwards slept around on his wife.Teresitahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05528002521904908827noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21297199.post-40910390491926306682007-10-13T09:14:00.000-04:002007-10-13T09:14:00.000-04:002164th: T, your point is that had Sanchez received...2164th: <I>T, your point is that had Sanchez received his fourth star, he would be less troubled, or his troubling would be in remission? Could be. Is that better or worse?</I><BR/><BR/>I feel he should have retired <B>voluntarily</B> in the immediate aftermath of Abu Grahib. He said he was <B>forced</B> to retire by not being offered another billet. Otherwise he wanted to continue to serve. I do not think he is a dishonorable man. I agree with his assessment of the fiasco in Iraq, and I honor his keeping with tradition that military men are not supposed to influence the civilians who exercise Constitutional authority over them by running to the media during active duty. I disagree with your assessment that he made a purely fiscal calculation to string out his term of service to get a cushy pension.Teresitahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05528002521904908827noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21297199.post-44102574148841130302007-10-13T07:49:00.000-04:002007-10-13T07:49:00.000-04:00Getting back to the c-span talk by Sanchez, his en...Getting back to the c-span talk by Sanchez, his entire opening statement is a harsh rebuke of the press and how the Iraq war is being reported. Not much is being reported about that at all. No surprise there.Deuce ☂https://www.blogger.com/profile/13472858446242700869noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21297199.post-88109577634995832072007-10-13T07:30:00.000-04:002007-10-13T07:30:00.000-04:00T, your point is that had Sanchez received his fou...T, your point is that had Sanchez received his fourth star, he would be less troubled, or his troubling would be in remission? Could be. Is that better or worse?Deuce ☂https://www.blogger.com/profile/13472858446242700869noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21297199.post-56108388923224049752007-10-13T07:15:00.000-04:002007-10-13T07:15:00.000-04:00If you watch the c-span program, it is obvious San...If you watch the c-span program, it is obvious Sanchez ia a very troubled man. At one point he admits to losing 800 men. He says that after he left Iraq, he looked at every phpto and read every bio. Maybe he wanted that next star and his motivation was pure ambition. He claims that the system demands soldiers follow all lawful orders and the time to ask questions and express doubts is after retirement. A General has an obligation to his superiors. He admits that the civilians, so far un-named, were inept and wrong. He recognized that in 2003. He admits to that. <BR/><BR/>He goes on and praises those who he is charged to lead. Their fate is different. They die or are maimed for little purpose other than saving what or who? <BR/><BR/>I am not so naive as to be astonished by the facts of the topic. I was never so driven by ambition or enamored with authority. I am astonished by those who are. <BR/><BR/>Ash poses an interesting question. What would I do standing in his boots? What should a person do? <BR/><BR/>Quit.Deuce ☂https://www.blogger.com/profile/13472858446242700869noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21297199.post-10563109332486393412007-10-13T06:43:00.000-04:002007-10-13T06:43:00.000-04:00Ash: I am puzzled as well by you vehement reaction...Ash: <I>I am puzzled as well by you vehement reaction to his public statements. When you were in the service and you disagreed with what you saw about you did you resign?</I><BR/><BR/>He was in command when the abuse of prisoners occurred at Abu Ghraib prison. Instead of stepping down at that time, Sanchez put the blame instead on a few individuals of the lowest rank, who went to the brig. Some people (Rush, possibly Deuce) condition a man's honor on what he says after he gets out of the service. I say a man's honor is based solely on the merit of that service.<BR/><BR/><I>Lt. Gen. Ricardo Sanchez, who served a tumultuous year as commander of all U.S. forces in Iraq, retired from the Army on Wednesday, calling his career a casualty of the Abu Ghraib prison scandal. He said for a story in The Monitor in McAllen, Texas, <A HREF="http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/11/02/iraq/main2143888.shtml" REL="nofollow"><BR/>"that's the key reason, the sole reason, that I was forced to retire. I was essentially not offered another position in either a three-star or four-star command." </A>He had been a candidate to become the next commander of U.S. Southern Command. But he was passed over after the Abu Ghraib prisoner abuse scandal exploded into an international controversy. Sanchez has not been accused of any misconduct but has been criticized by some for not doing more to avoid mistreatment of Iraqi prisoners. </I>Teresitahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05528002521904908827noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21297199.post-26581764933099125102007-10-13T06:27:00.000-04:002007-10-13T06:27:00.000-04:00Desert Rat: But the good Generals, loyal and true,...Desert Rat: <I>But the good Generals, loyal and true, do the best they can to accomplish what of the mission they could.</I><BR/><BR/>Deuce, who is really astonishing me with this topic, claims that Sanchez ramained quiet during the Iraq War, despite his misgivings, so he could max out his pension. He retired almost a year ago, on November 1, 2006. In November of 2004 Bush won re-election because the war had not gone to shit yet. Many people say the February 2006 bombing of the al-Askari Mosque was the "Tet" moment in this war. William F. Buckley Jr., Mister Private Property, wrote a Cronkitesque piece the following day that the war was unwinnable. That means Lt. General Sanchez had a window of exactly <B>eight months</B> to decide there was no way to turn things around and resign before shooting his mouth off. 2164th is saying he wanted to stay in those last eight months to squeeze the last penny out of the retirement system!!Teresitahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05528002521904908827noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21297199.post-36933982342201427942007-10-13T03:20:00.000-04:002007-10-13T03:20:00.000-04:00They gave 'em a Mission that did not qualify under...They gave 'em a Mission that did not qualify under the doctrine they'd trained their whole careers with. <BR/><BR/>33 years plus one gets the LTG into the Army in 1973 or 74.<BR/><BR/>By '78 SecDef Wineberger championed the formulation of Doctrine that would become the bedrock of US miltary intervention policy for the entirety of the LTG's carrer, until 2003.<BR/><BR/>When Mr Cheney counciled that <BR/>"9/11 Changed Everything".<BR/><BR/>Now advocates, according to See-more Hersh, extending the "9/11 Changed Everything" miltiary strategy into Iran.<BR/><BR/>But the good Generals, loyal and true, do the best they can to accomplish what of the mission they could.<BR/><BR/>They certainly did not commit crimes to the "I was only following orders" Standard of Analogy.desert rathttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02369546288659566961noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21297199.post-57811341256386656292007-10-13T03:12:00.000-04:002007-10-13T03:12:00.000-04:00This comment has been removed by the author.desert rathttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02369546288659566961noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21297199.post-45546095230300015772007-10-13T02:54:00.000-04:002007-10-13T02:54:00.000-04:00“The Charge of the Light Brigade” (Alfred Lord Ten...“The Charge of the Light Brigade” (Alfred Lord Tennyson)<BR/><BR/>Half a league, half a league,<BR/>Half a league onward,<BR/>All in the valley of Death<BR/>Rode the six hundred.<BR/>“Forward the Light Brigade!<BR/>Charge for the guns!” he said.<BR/>Into the valley of Death<BR/>Rode the six hundred. Forward, the Light Brigade!”<BR/>Was there a man dismay’d?<BR/>Not tho’ the soldier knew<BR/>Some one had blunder’d.<BR/>Theirs not to make reply,<BR/>Theirs not to reason why,<BR/>Theirs but to do and die.<BR/>Into the valley of Death<BR/>Rode the six hundred.<BR/><BR/>Cannon to right of them,<BR/>Cannon to left of them,<BR/>Cannon in front of them<BR/>Volley’d and thunder’d;<BR/>Storm’d at with shot and shell,<BR/>Boldly they rode and well,<BR/>Into the jaws of Death,<BR/>Into the mouth of hell<BR/>Rode the six hundred.<BR/><BR/>Flash’d all their sabres bare,<BR/>Flash’d as they turn’d in air<BR/>Sabring the gunners there,<BR/>Charging an army, while<BR/>All the world wonder’d.<BR/>Plunged in the battery-smoke<BR/>Right thro’ the line they broke;<BR/>Cossack and Russian<BR/>Reel’d from the sabre-stroke<BR/>Shatter’d and sunder’d.<BR/>Then they rode back, but not,<BR/>Not the six hundred.<BR/><BR/>Cannon to right of them,<BR/>Cannon to left of them,<BR/>Cannon behind them<BR/>Volley’d and thunder’d;<BR/>Storm’d at with shot and shell,<BR/>While horse and hero fell,<BR/>They that had fought so well<BR/>Came thro’ the jaws of Death,<BR/>Back from the mouth of hell,<BR/>All that was left of them,<BR/>Left of six hundred.<BR/><BR/>When can their glory fade?<BR/>O the wild charge they made!<BR/>All the world wonder’d.<BR/>Honor the charge they made!<BR/>Honor the Light Brigade,<BR/>Noble six hundred!Deuce ☂https://www.blogger.com/profile/13472858446242700869noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21297199.post-73794952130919614772007-10-13T02:49:00.000-04:002007-10-13T02:49:00.000-04:00This topic is worthy of more discussion. If Whit h...This topic is worthy of more discussion. If Whit has no objection, I think we ought to let it run a little longer than usual.<BR/><BR/> I'll leave that decision up to Whit and the Directors.Deuce ☂https://www.blogger.com/profile/13472858446242700869noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21297199.post-41025439803625852382007-10-13T02:42:00.000-04:002007-10-13T02:42:00.000-04:00I listened to the press conference of the general ...I listened to the press conference of the general on <A HREF="http://www.c-span.org/" REL="nofollow"> c-span</A>. Look for it under " recent program." <BR/><BR/>General Sanchez is clearly a troubled man. I find myself agreeing with most of what he says. I just cannot understand him not speaking out in 2003 when he states that he saw the problem. Perhaps that is what troubles him today. <BR/><BR/>Where is the dividing line between loyalty to your office and loyalty to the trust between a leader and his subordinates? Sanchez, as DR points out, must have been just one of many officers that saw this mess developing. <BR/><BR/>Listen to one reporter at 43 minutes into this interview. The reporter was a trooper under Sanchez and directly asks him about his responsibility to his troops, when he knew what he says he knew. Sanchez gives a blunt contrite answer. <BR/><BR/>Sanchez is emphatic that serving American General Officers cannot stand up and challenge political leadership. He states that they can resign or retire. He does say the speaking out should occur after retiring. <BR/><BR/>Sanchez did not name those he blames but hinted that he will name names later. I think that remark in itself is disingenuous. Why would he protect these political leaders at this time? He does say that it is necessary to win the war.<BR/><BR/>What a mess.Deuce ☂https://www.blogger.com/profile/13472858446242700869noreply@blogger.com