tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21297199.post4436856751920775936..comments2024-03-28T03:47:46.544-04:00Comments on The Elephant Bar: Has Speaker Pelosi broken the Logan Act?Deuce ☂http://www.blogger.com/profile/13472858446242700869noreply@blogger.comBlogger40125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21297199.post-37648666249971254652007-04-17T03:14:00.000-04:002007-04-17T03:14:00.000-04:00Wait, wait... it seems to me that everyone is forg...Wait, wait... it seems to me that everyone is forgetting several things: 1) the USA has full diplomatic relations with Syria, including an embassy in Damascus. 2) We are not engaged in any military action against Syria. 3) Several days before Pelosi's trip, a Republican delegation visited Damascus and met with al-Assad, to little fanfare and no condemnation. 4) Pelosi did not engage in actual negotiations with the Syrian government. 5) Pelosi has stated that that she informed Bush of her visit in advance, and received no objections. <BR/><BR/>If this trip violated the Logan Act, then so has just about any foreign visit by any member of Congress. In fact, the State Dept. has in the past found no fault with Congressional visits to Cuba, provided the executive branch was informed and no unauthorized negotiations took place.<BR/><BR/>Oh, and in the law's 208-year history, not a single person has been convicted under it.<BR/><BR/>So, in short... No. Even if somehow this thing came to court, it would never fly.ixathttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16252314912153156267noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21297199.post-12582679500882726372007-04-07T18:09:00.000-04:002007-04-07T18:09:00.000-04:00"So there is no separation of powers, and each mem..."<I>So there is no separation of powers, and each member of Congress is Commander-In-Chief of the US Armed Forces, like the President is? Each member of Congress can veto legislation? Each member of Congress can appoint Supreme Court justices and Ambassadors? </I>"Doughttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16770268554450465514noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21297199.post-75838222241950466352007-04-07T18:07:00.000-04:002007-04-07T18:07:00.000-04:00Wu Wei said... "Yes, Congress does have regulatory...Wu Wei said... <BR/>"<I>Yes, Congress does have regulatory powers over war. But my point is that Congress can only act as a group, by passing legislation. If Congress wants to control relationships with foreign countries, they need to do it by passing laws and treaties, not by Nancy Pelosi going to Syria. Congress passes laws which the President carries out, but it doesn't fly around the world pretending to be 535 Presidents.</I>"Doughttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16770268554450465514noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21297199.post-22347499817053200812007-04-07T18:04:00.000-04:002007-04-07T18:04:00.000-04:00How come 'Rat never responded to some of Wu and Te...How come 'Rat never responded to some of Wu and Teresita's points?Doughttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16770268554450465514noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21297199.post-944822067278135232007-04-07T18:02:00.000-04:002007-04-07T18:02:00.000-04:00So Merkle, touted as a Bush ally, in contrast to p...So Merkle, touted as a Bush ally, in contrast to previous admins, heads govt of Germany, giving aid and trade to FASCISTS intent on murdering JEWS!<BR/>I guess genocide by proxy is morally different than Genocide.Doughttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16770268554450465514noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21297199.post-6600544837699447992007-04-07T11:11:00.000-04:002007-04-07T11:11:00.000-04:00From FOX:WASHINGTON — As U.S. officials seek a di...From FOX:<BR/><I>WASHINGTON — As U.S. officials seek a diplomatic solution to the Iranian regime's suspected nuclear weapons program, a growing chorus of critics on the right say the Bush administration is being soft on Iran and other so-called "enemies of freedom."<BR/><BR/>These critics, including some members of the U.S. Congress, say the administration's diplomatic strategy with Iran will likely come to naught and a more aggressive approach — including economic sanctions and regime change — should be pursued.<BR/><BR/>"Time after time, the regime in Tehran has defied the world's demands that it abandon it nuclear ambitions, even heralding its successful production of enriched uranium only a few months ago," said Rep. Ileana Ros-Lehtinen, chairwoman of the House International Relations Subcommittee on the Middle East and Central Asia. </I><BR/><BR/>And then there is:<BR/><B>Out-hawking Bush on Iran</B><I><BR/>Saber-rattling Evan Bayh has joined Hillary Clinton in running to Bush's right on Iran. Will this tough stance pay off in 2008 -- or backfire?</I><BR/><A HREF="http://www.salon.com/news/feature/2006/02/13/hawks" REL="nofollow"/> in Salon:<BR/><BR/>But then at GOPBlogger this is promoted:<BR/><B>On Iran, Bush Should Follow Dodd and Lantos</B><BR/><A HREF="http://www.gopbloggers.org/mt/archives/004801.php" REL="nofollow">by Jon Roth</A> at 08:42 PM<BR/><BR/><I>When Democrats are right, we're happy to showcase it (like this). Sen. Christopher Dodd and Rep. Tom Lantos are sponsoring a bill that the House ought to pass 435-0 and the Senate ought to pass 100-0. It should be a no-brainer, as Dick Morris explains.<BR/><BR/>"We should pass — and the president should sign — the Dodd-Lantos bill mandating economic sanctions on any foreign company that aids Iran’s energy industry. Domestic companies are already prohibited from such investments.<BR/><BR/>This Democratic bill, cosponsored by Sen. Chris Dodd (Conn.) and Rep. Tom Lantos (Calif.), is a bold piece of legislation that strikes at the core of Iranian vulnerability."<BR/><BR/>Guest blogger Duncan Hunter just signed on as a co-sponsor.<BR/>And, in a singular act of courage and dedication to principle, Republican presidential candidate <B>Congressman Duncan Hunter (Calif.) has added his name to the legislation as a cosponsor. </B></I>desert rathttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02369546288659566961noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21297199.post-46448086443832528862007-04-07T11:00:00.000-04:002007-04-07T11:00:00.000-04:00bobalharb: I'm sitting out here in Idaho, and I am...bobalharb: <I>I'm sitting out here in Idaho, and I am kind of shamed of myself, as I am not up to speed on the Logan Act. Why does an older guy like me have to know all this stuff? Can't I just, like, you know, not like Pelosi?</I><BR/><BR/>Pelosi seems to be in violation of the clear text of the Logan Act:<BR/><BR/><I>Any citizen of the United States, wherever he may be, who, without authority of the United States, directly or indirectly commences or carries on any correspondence or intercourse with any foreign government or any officer or agent thereof, with intent to influence the measures or conduct of any foreign government or of any officer or agent thereof, in relation to any disputes or controversies with the United States, or to defeat the measures of the United States, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than three years, or both.</I><BR/><BR/>That being said, Bush's political capital is so low he can't even get a rise out of a captive military audience with his "oceans no longer protect us" stump speech, let alone prosecute a popular Democrat babe-a-loid who is the highest ranking woman ever in the US Government.<BR/><BR/>If you're looking for a reason not to like her, she gets a lower <A HREF="http://www.acuratings.org/2006all.htm#WA" REL="nofollow">ACU rating</A> than <B><I>Patty Murray</I></B>! WOW!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21297199.post-12160257016377130502007-04-07T10:54:00.000-04:002007-04-07T10:54:00.000-04:00Ms Glick, she's quoting Mr Bush:The footage of the...Ms Glick, she's quoting Mr Bush:<BR/><BR/><I>The footage of the British hostages thanking Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad for his hospitality and forgiveness, like the footage of Speaker of the US House of Representatives Nancy Pelosi covering her head in a scarf while on a visit to Damascus, was enough to make you sick.<BR/><BR/>Must we lose this war?<BR/><BR/>On Tuesday, US President George W. Bush had some clear thoughts on Pelosi's visit. Bush said, <BR/><BR/>"Going to Syria sends mixed signals - signals in the region and, of course, mixed signals to President [Bashar] Assad... Photo opportunities and/or meetings with President Assad lead the Assad government to believe they're part of the mainstream of the international community when, in fact, they're a state sponsor of terror; when, in fact, they're helping expedite - or at least not stopping - the movement of foreign fighters from Syria into Iraq; when, in fact, they have done little to nothing to rein in militant Hamas and Hizbullah; and when, in fact, they destabilize the Lebanese democracy." <BR/>...<BR/>Other Syrian officials made clear that far from softening Syria's policies, Pelosi's visit, like those of European leaders, will only toughen Syria's positions. As Imad Moustapha, Syria's ambassador in Washington, put it, "Syria will not hurriedly offer concessions when it refused to offer them under much greater pressure from the United States in the past."<BR/><BR/>On Wednesday, Pelosi stated triumphantly, "We were very pleased with the assurances we received from [Assad that] he was ready to resume the peace process. He's ready to engage in negotiations for peace with Israel."<BR/><BR/>Yet this is a lie. Over the past several weeks, it has become abundantly clear that Syria is preparing to attack Israel in the coming months. If Pelosi had bothered to pay attention, she would have noted the terrorists from Gaza, Lebanon and Iraq passing her at the Damascus airport en route to training camps in Syria and Iran.<BR/>...<BR/>Europe is Teheran's largest trading partner. A quarter of Iranian exports go to Europe, and 40 percent of Iranian imports are from Europe.<BR/><BR/>Britain reportedly asked its EU sister-states to respond to this act of war by freezing their trade ties with Iran. Its request was met with immediate rejection. Reportedly, Germany led the pack in saying no. This is a shame since freezing European trade with Iran would effectively start the countdown for the fall of the mullahs.<BR/><BR/>Merkel's Germany is Iran's largest trading partner in Europe.<BR/>...<BR/>"Some two-thirds of Iranian industry relies on German engineering products. The Iranians are certainly dependent on German spare parts and suppliers."<BR/><BR/>Germany's booming trade with Iran would have gone bust long ago had it not been for the largesse of the German government. The German government, which supposedly opposes Teheran's nuclear weapons program, provides export guarantees for 65% of German investments in Iran.<BR/><BR/>When seen in the context of her government's subsidization of the Iranian economy, Merkel's anti-Iranian and anti-jihad statements are exposed as farce.</I>desert rathttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02369546288659566961noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21297199.post-47192299717360832992007-04-07T10:37:00.000-04:002007-04-07T10:37:00.000-04:00Amendment XThe powers not delegated to the United ...<B>Amendment X<BR/><BR/>The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the states, are reserved to the states respectively, or to the people. <BR/></B><BR/><BR/>So much the Federals do is unConstitutional. If one believes that Amendment 10 is as viable as Amendment 16 or 17desert rathttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02369546288659566961noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21297199.post-88023220434551979092007-04-07T10:33:00.000-04:002007-04-07T10:33:00.000-04:00Let's deine negotiating vs visitingAre the two the...Let's deine negotiating vs visiting<BR/><BR/>Are the two the same?<BR/><BR/>What treaty did Ms Peolsi negotiate? What proposals did she advance, if any?<BR/><BR/>Funny, now the Constitution does not say what it says. <BR/>Must be why over 20 million US preCitizens have been killed with Constitutional sanction. <BR/>Things that are not there, well they can be read 'tween the lines, and what is there, don't mean nothin'.desert rathttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02369546288659566961noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21297199.post-79052288136764732552007-04-07T10:28:00.000-04:002007-04-07T10:28:00.000-04:00Yes, within the Rules of each body, legislation ca...Yes, within the Rules of each body, legislation can be vetoed, appointments with held.<BR/><BR/>If the House were not to approve Legislation, it would not be available for Presidental veto.<BR/><BR/>The Power of the Executive is diffused across the members of Congress. Right there, plain as day:<BR/><BR/><B> "for carrying into execution the foregoing powers, and all other powers vested by this Constitution in the government of the United States, or in any department or officer thereof." <BR/><BR/>"for carrying into execution the foregoing powers"</B><BR/><BR/>They can go anywhere, do anything, that is not defined as Treason. The Logan Act violation falls short of Treason, maximum penalty of 3 years.desert rathttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02369546288659566961noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21297199.post-85967269716724657812007-04-07T10:27:00.000-04:002007-04-07T10:27:00.000-04:00DR & others"The President has no power that the Co...DR & others<BR/><BR/>"The President has no power that the Congress does not also have."<BR/><BR/>This statement does not merit serious consideration.<BR/><BR/>Some of the posts on this thread areabsolutely astonishing in there mischaracterization and misunderstanding of the way our government functions, and the separation of powers.<BR/><BR/>This is mind boggling in it's incandescent ignorance.<BR/><BR/>Earlier someone tried to tell blog readers that Nancy was "head" of a co-equal branch of government.<BR/>MY questions was exactly when she became head of the US Senate? See it's one of the two components of the Legislative Branch of our government. That person, well it's just a pitiful statement of ignorance on their part.<BR/><BR/>Which branch of government negotitates treaties? What is the function of the State Department?<BR/><BR/>" Congress can make foreign policy through:<BR/><BR/>1) -- resolutions and policy statements<BR/>2) -- legislative directives<BR/>3) -- legislative pressure<BR/>4) -- legislative restrictions/funding denials<BR/>5) -- informal advice<BR/>6) -- congressional oversight.<BR/><BR/>Notice it doesn't mention NEGOTIATING FOREIGN POLICY<BR/><BR/><A HTTP://FPC.STATE.GOV/FPC/6172.HTM HREF="" REL="nofollow">US Foreign Policy</A><BR/><BR/>I have said this many times before, it is IMPERATIVE and ACKNOWLEDGED by almost all political scholars that a citizen can not have an understanding of the functioning of our government as originally intended without reading the Federal Papers. Never to late to get started.Habuhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15883037170077821624noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21297199.post-40993577886548098102007-04-07T10:17:00.000-04:002007-04-07T10:17:00.000-04:00The Congress commands the Commander, wu.They Decla...The Congress commands the Commander, wu.<BR/><BR/>They Declare War, they regulate the Army. The Commander commands within the confines of those Regulations.<BR/><BR/>If the Congress were to regulate the departure date of that Army, from a foreign adventure, it can.<BR/>If the Congress wishes to unDeclare War, it can.<BR/><BR/>So, yes, in a way, there are 535 commanders of the Military. They are out of the Chain of Command, but are co-equal to the President.desert rathttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02369546288659566961noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21297199.post-31631793879163054472007-04-07T10:12:00.000-04:002007-04-07T10:12:00.000-04:00The FBI?They cannot bring an indictment against Mr...The FBI?<BR/><BR/>They cannot bring an indictment against Mr Jefferson of LA.<BR/>After finding the "cold cash".<BR/><BR/>They cannot even operate within confines of the Patriot Act.<BR/><BR/>Investigate elected Congressmen for treason, they cannot bring indictments when they have the perp with the money. <BR/><BR/>The Skull & Boners are gettin' their way. They inhabit the highest echelons of both Parties.desert rathttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02369546288659566961noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21297199.post-2709203163827649822007-04-07T10:11:00.000-04:002007-04-07T10:11:00.000-04:00> They have the authority of the Government, like ...> They have the authority of the Government, like it or not. <BR/><BR/>What does that mean to you: That the members of Congress can veto legislation? That they are commanders-in-chief of the military?<BR/><BR/>There's nothing in the Constitution that says they can do anything besides pass legislation.Herr Wu Weihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00439448704543478131noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21297199.post-77271180850634201052007-04-07T10:08:00.000-04:002007-04-07T10:08:00.000-04:00Yes, Congress does have regulatory powers over war...Yes, Congress does have regulatory powers over war. But my point is that Congress can only act as a group, by passing legislation. If Congress wants to control relationships with foreign countries, they need to do it by passing laws and treaties, not by Nancy Pelosi going to Syria. Congress passes laws which the President carries out, but it doesn't fly around the world pretending to be 535 Presidents.Herr Wu Weihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00439448704543478131noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21297199.post-21670248929871494272007-04-07T10:07:00.000-04:002007-04-07T10:07:00.000-04:00No, wu, the Congress has every power the President...No, wu, the Congress has every power the President has. That is what it says.<BR/>You may find that inefficent, unproductive and confusing. No argument there.<BR/><BR/>But the various Speakers of the House can travel the World, speaking to whom ever they wish.<BR/><BR/>They have the authority of the Government, like it or not.desert rathttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02369546288659566961noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21297199.post-29302222642784901412007-04-07T10:05:00.000-04:002007-04-07T10:05:00.000-04:00The President needs to do much more than the Logan...The President needs to do much more than the Logan Act. He should have the FBI investigate the ties between the Democrats and terrorist groups & countries.<BR/><BR/>Immediately after the election, Al Qaeda said they were happy that the Democrats were elected, and could work with them. The first thing Democrats did was to send one of their committee leaders to a terrorist country.<BR/><BR/>The Democratic agenda in Congress, Pelosi's agenda, is Al Qaeda's agenda. They want us to pull out of Iraq, leaving it as a terrorist base camp. They want us to negotiate and befriend terrorist countries like Iran and Syria.<BR/><BR/>It needs to be investigated to see if it is a coincidence that the Democrats agree with Al Qaeda and the terrorists, or if money or some other illegal influence is involved.Herr Wu Weihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00439448704543478131noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21297199.post-24488948428758058212007-04-07T10:02:00.000-04:002007-04-07T10:02:00.000-04:00No. not as Commander, wu, but as those that define...No. not as Commander, wu, but as those that define the Mission, and regulate the use and rules of the Military<BR/><BR/><I>To define and punish piracies and felonies committed on the high seas, and offenses against the law of nations; <BR/><BR/><B>To declare war, grant letters of marque and reprisal, and make rules concerning captures on land and water; </B><BR/><BR/>To raise and support armies, but no appropriation of money to that use shall be for a longer term than two years; <BR/><BR/>To provide and maintain a navy; <BR/><BR/>To make rules for the government and<B> regulation of the land and naval forces;</B></I><BR/><BR/>What is regulation of, if not control over?desert rathttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02369546288659566961noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21297199.post-63784180420522683662007-04-07T09:59:00.000-04:002007-04-07T09:59:00.000-04:00DR, the part you quoted is correct. It says the Co...DR, the part you quoted is correct. It says the Congress has the power "To make all laws". It is nothing more than making laws. Pelosi is one of 535 members of Congress who can be part of passing a law, which then goes to the President for approval or veto.<BR/>There is nothing in that quote about negotiating for the United States or being commander-in-chief.Herr Wu Weihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00439448704543478131noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21297199.post-4972017696223165992007-04-07T09:57:00.000-04:002007-04-07T09:57:00.000-04:00One never knows, though, how the Supremes will dec...One never knows, though, how the Supremes will decide.<BR/><BR/>"Tween Roe vs Wade, McCain-Feingold & Hamdan the Supremes obviously see things from a different perspective than minedesert rathttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02369546288659566961noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21297199.post-42926806876820596802007-04-07T09:55:00.000-04:002007-04-07T09:55:00.000-04:00> The President has no power that the Congress doe...> The President has no power that the Congress does not also have.<BR/><BR/>So there is no separation of powers, and each member of Congress is Commander-In-Chief of the US Armed Forces, like the President is? Each member of Congress can veto legislation? Each member of Congress can appoint Supreme Court justices and Ambassadors?Herr Wu Weihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00439448704543478131noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21297199.post-31210059706822431062007-04-07T09:45:00.000-04:002007-04-07T09:45:00.000-04:00The Law"§ 953. Private correspondence with foreign...The Law<BR/>"§ 953. Private correspondence with foreign governments. <BR/>Any citizen of the United States, wherever he may be, who, without authority of the United States,..."<BR/><BR/>authority of the United States<BR/><BR/>Does the Speaker of the House have the authority of the United States?<BR/><BR/>Well, this part of the Constitution would indicate she does<BR/><BR/><I>To make all laws which shall be necessary and proper for carrying into execution the foregoing powers,<B> and all other powers vested by this Constitution in the government of the United States, or in any department or officer thereof. </B></I><BR/><BR/>The President has no power that the Congress does not also have.<BR/>The Logan Act, which has never been tested in Court, would be found unConstituitonal, as applied by some to Ms Pelosi.<BR/><BR/>The powers of an Imperial Presidency not sanction by the Constitutin.desert rathttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02369546288659566961noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21297199.post-77863441307201404692007-04-07T09:42:00.000-04:002007-04-07T09:42:00.000-04:00Habu, who is part of this post has never had a com...Habu, who is part of this post has never had a comment deleted. He is welcome to post but questioned what the rules are. They are stated at the banner head, conversation, civil and interesting. <BR/><BR/>My wish is that one conducts himself as if you were standing at a bar and engaged in a lively conversation. <BR/><BR/>In my experience doing that, common sense sets a personal boundary that prevents you from saying something that will put you in the hospital, jail or the morgue. Personal attacks are the least interesting posts. This is not an AOL chat room.Deuce ☂https://www.blogger.com/profile/13472858446242700869noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21297199.post-28965386958892948762007-04-07T09:32:00.000-04:002007-04-07T09:32:00.000-04:00tiger runs a web site, Observanda, and was too po...tiger runs a web site, Observanda, and was too polite to make a direct link to his site which is <A HREF="http://observanda.blogspot.com/2007/04/oh-no-petraeus-has-bush-disease-begging.html" REL="nofollow">here</A>. Tiger and others who have their own blog and participate at the Elephant are always welcome to post and link to their site. This site was started on a whim and a fluke and the stated purpose is to give exposure to different ideas and opinions on world affairs.<BR/><BR/>That is what we do here.Deuce ☂https://www.blogger.com/profile/13472858446242700869noreply@blogger.com