tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21297199.post4275007370372137170..comments2024-03-28T06:32:24.557-04:00Comments on The Elephant Bar: While US dissipates its power in Asian sands, Asia focuses on Latin America.Deuce ☂http://www.blogger.com/profile/13472858446242700869noreply@blogger.comBlogger57125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21297199.post-75727757990909363072009-08-16T23:55:51.580-04:002009-08-16T23:55:51.580-04:00State of the Art, back in the day.
Though if thos...<a href="http://glide.intercom.it/images/savage-fiat500-c.jpg" rel="nofollow">State of the Art</a>, back in the day.<br /><br />Though if those were the only two toys a fella had, he'd be doin' okay, even today.desert rathttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02369546288659566961noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21297199.post-875039241873022282009-08-16T23:50:04.188-04:002009-08-16T23:50:04.188-04:00Fiat 500C.
The View is better here, much better.<a href="http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.cartoday.com/images/news/2008/02/fiat500c_305.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.cartoday.com/content/news/singlepage.asp%3Fin%3D8971&usg=__OYEWTQ1Jhl65H261ryxbp2b8pv4=&h=205&w=305&sz=19&hl=en&start=12&tbnid=KFN1SplEpedguM:&tbnh=78&tbnw=116&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dfiat%2B500c%26gbv%3D2%26hl%3Den" rel="nofollow">Fiat 500C</a>.<br /><br />The View is <a href="http://www.egmcartech.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/01/fiat_500_contender_by_castagna_main.jpg" rel="nofollow">better here</a>, much better.desert rathttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02369546288659566961noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21297199.post-75452527782655835312009-08-16T23:48:23.933-04:002009-08-16T23:48:23.933-04:00Rat
When we are talking about any major
social ch...Rat<br /><br />When we are talking about any major<br />social change, the underlying causes need not be major. <br /><br />There are always various forces at work in any social dynamic. A major change can occur with relatively small changes. Sometimes it does not take much to alter the tipping point.<br /><br />Next, the men who came home from the war were adult males of breeding age. The fact that they were only 6% of the overall population does not reflect the importance of this many potential new fathers and the affect that they would wield as such on a new generation.<br /><br />That said, I agree with many of the points that you bring up. However, I see them as effects rather than causes.<br /><br />At this stage of our little debate I can only say that we will have to agree to disagree.<br /><br />This was a good round, Rat. I enjoyed it.Blackbirdhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17564593406229397540noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21297199.post-26971712494029241572009-08-16T23:43:50.303-04:002009-08-16T23:43:50.303-04:00NEW YORK (Reuters) - Chrysler Group is planning to...<i>NEW YORK (Reuters) - Chrysler Group is planning to produce Fiat SpA's (FIA.MI) Fiat 500 subcompact at a Chrysler plant in Mexico, the Wall Street Journal reported, citing people familiar with the matter.</i>desert rathttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02369546288659566961noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21297199.post-30183468755787183442009-08-16T23:31:26.856-04:002009-08-16T23:31:26.856-04:00I would not say they were either morally or physic...I would not say they were either morally or physically exhausted, not the majority of them.<br /><br /><i>Within five months of V-J Day, 8.5 million servicemen and women had been mustered out</i>, ...<br /><br />The vast majority of which never saw any combat. When considering the tooth to tail, most were part of the extended tail, of which there were hundreds for every combat tooth.<br /><br />I would also reference the explosive economic expansion that followed WWII as exemplifying the vitality of the returning veterans, not their general state of lethargy.<br /><br />Which is not to claim that there were not some that suffered from what today would be described as post-tramatic stress. But not the majority of those 8.5 million veterans.<br /><br />The population of the US, in 1945 was 132,481.000. The mass demobilization, those 8,500,000 discharged, making up only 6.4% of the population.<br /><br />Enough, perhaps to light a fuse, but not enough for an explosion.<br /><br />There just were not enough of them, to cause the "revolution", they were just swept along with everyone else.<br /><br />It was the emancipation of the ladies that was the primary driver. The cultural accelerant as it were.<br /><br />First as <a href="http://hattie.typepad.com/hatties_web/images/rosie_riveter.jpg" rel="nofollow">Rosie the Riveter</a>, then after being freed from reproductive biology, <a href="http://www.vcorps.army.mil/VictoryForward/album/1ad_47fsb_female_soldier_iraq_27sep06.jpg" rel="nofollow">to be all they could be</a>.desert rathttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02369546288659566961noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21297199.post-56634873211871007192009-08-16T23:26:13.900-04:002009-08-16T23:26:13.900-04:00Good night, all. I'm worn out.Good night, all. I'm worn out.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21297199.post-49490500231643468952009-08-16T23:24:57.683-04:002009-08-16T23:24:57.683-04:00Victor, I started to say, "I think you worry ...Victor, I started to say, "I think you worry a little "too much" about "Socialism." Then I thought better of it, and decided that, since Too Much Socialism is definitely not a Good thing, it's probably good that SOMEONE Is worrying about it.<br /><br />On the other hand, as Hannity would say, "Let not your heart be TOO troubled." We just saw an ENORMOUS Outpouring of Energy from the American People when a New President tried to introduce TOO MUCH Socialism.<br /><br />It MIGHT be possible, some day, to wrest the reins of power completely away from the hands of the American People, <b>But, That Day isn't TODAY.</b><br /><br />BTW, the "Public Option" is Dead. <br /><br />Expired. Shuffled off the Mortal Coil. Joined the Choir, Galactic. Kicked the Bucket. Given up the Ghost. Met it's expiry date. Gone to Meet its Maker. Tits Up.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21297199.post-70178351319810581082009-08-16T23:11:17.614-04:002009-08-16T23:11:17.614-04:00"School Integration" was an Enormous thi..."School Integration" was an Enormous thing. When the Governor of the State of Arkansas stood aside and let those little black girls walk through the door to that school Jim Crow was a Dead Man Walking.<br /><br />I'm glad we had/have affirmative action, and a Black President. I don't have to "feel guilty" driving down the street, or walking into a store. Me, or mine, haven't done crap to hurt, or "hold back" anyone, there.<br /><br />You're "On your Own, Bubba." You got your college degree, and your "guy" in the White House. "Fight, Fuck, or Go For Your Guns." All's the same to me.<br /><br />Oh, yeah, birth control. Pretty big, I think. Not just for the wimmin, though. It allowed us to keep our families down to a size that we could provide for them, and educate them. Big move up.<br /><br />Have I mentioned Computers, and Computer Chips, Communications, yet?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21297199.post-51924272814217250012009-08-16T23:11:14.013-04:002009-08-16T23:11:14.013-04:00desert rat said...
"As duece noted during th...desert rat said... <br />"As duece noted during the GI Bill discussion, only 10% of High School graduates attended college, before WWII.<br /><br />Now 65% do.<br /><br />Institutionalized education.<br />Female equality in fertility.<br /><br />Seem to be the drivers with extended "reach"."<br /><br />"Insitutionalized Education": now we're talking!<br /><br />This is how the left wing was able to proselytize and plant the seeds of cultural revolution.Blackbirdhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17564593406229397540noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21297199.post-18524665856833782222009-08-16T23:06:06.234-04:002009-08-16T23:06:06.234-04:00desert rat said...
"The cultural change was ...desert rat said... <br />"The cultural change was not driven by testosterone, but by women gaining control of their biology.<br /><br />Fertility control, marketed as a personal lifestyle choice.<br />Mass higher education, which women now successfully complete at higher rates than men.<br /><br />I think your cause and effect, aimed at testosterone, is off target."<br /><br />Say What??<br /><br />Testosterone? Where the heck did that come from?Blackbirdhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17564593406229397540noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21297199.post-57044426721739790132009-08-16T23:05:03.426-04:002009-08-16T23:05:03.426-04:00As duece noted during the GI Bill discussion, only...As duece noted during the GI Bill discussion, only 10% of High School graduates attended college, before WWII.<br /><br />Now 65% do.<br /><br />Institutionalized education.<br />Female equality in fertility.<br /><br />Seem to be the drivers with extended "reach".desert rathttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02369546288659566961noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21297199.post-18159610766264930782009-08-16T23:02:35.524-04:002009-08-16T23:02:35.524-04:00Rat
I was busy writing my comment and missed your...Rat<br /><br />I was busy writing my comment and missed your 10:31 comment.<br /><br />You said:<br /><br />"One could say, viktor, that the cultural revolution was just another advance of civilization.<br /><br />The combining of Science, in the control of fertility. Industry, in the ability to mass produce the "Pill". Government, by allowing the "medicine" to be deemed "healthy" for individuals and society. All coming together to advance the culture on the trail towards a progressive civilization."<br /><br />The same state of technology exists worldwide. But different cultures absorb and apply it in different ways.<br /><br />The difference is the value system that the technology is filtered through.<br /><br />I do not deny the advances in technology. What I am saying is that there was an upheavel in the value system. What came to be allowed was an expression of a post war value system that differed substantially from pre-war values.<br /><br />It is my assertion that soldiers returning from the war were physically and morally exhausted. <br /><br />Do you disagree? And if you disagree, do you say that they were unaffected? And if you say that they were affected but not in the way I speculate upon, then how were they affected and what was the consequence of that?<br /><br />We have an additional complication of the war. Women were in the work force and a great many wanted to remain in it. <br /><br />Further, there was a minor revolution about sexual mores during such a long war. Both men and women separated for long periods of time do what is normal under the circumstances: they strayed. <br /><br />Both men and women had to accept that this was so. There was probably a reluctance to enforce a strict moral code after the war because of vague feeling of hypocrisy. Unwarranted but, nonetheless, there.<br /><br />This is a complicated subject, Rat and Rufus. I do not claim to know the complete story. <br /><br />But I do claim that WW2 had an enormous affect on America. I don't see how it is possible to argue otherwise after such a cataclysmic event.Blackbirdhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17564593406229397540noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21297199.post-21496464188870758652009-08-16T22:55:38.105-04:002009-08-16T22:55:38.105-04:00And, the Music was Good.
No Rap.And, the Music was Good.<br /><br />No Rap.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21297199.post-90215835055571262892009-08-16T22:55:05.510-04:002009-08-16T22:55:05.510-04:00Victor, the catalyst was "Boom Times." ...Victor, the catalyst was "Boom Times." We were the last Industrial Power standing. Times were good. We were getting wealthy. <br /><br />Wealthy people can afford Altruism, and Environmentalism. "Television" changed the world. People SAW Bull Connors, and his dogs. <br /><br />They, also, SAW Kennedy, and his Inaugural address. They SAW the Moon Landing, and Martin Luther King give his "I Have a Dream" Speech. <br /><br />The 20th Century probably started sometime in the middle to late 50's. <br /><br />The "Greatest Generation," Saved Our Skins. The Korean War Vets got an education, and went to work.<br /><br />The Baby Boomers "Changed the World." For Better, or Worse (you decide,) They Changed it.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21297199.post-3435740408795475502009-08-16T22:54:28.617-04:002009-08-16T22:54:28.617-04:00The cultural change was not driven by testosterone...The cultural change was not driven by testosterone, but by women gaining control of their biology.<br /><br />Fertility control, marketed as a personal lifestyle choice.<br />Mass higher education, which women now successfully complete at higher rates than men.<br /><br />I think your cause and effect, aimed at testosterone, is off target.desert rathttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02369546288659566961noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21297199.post-75571443548073697262009-08-16T22:45:12.071-04:002009-08-16T22:45:12.071-04:00People "Like" a little "Socialism.&...People "Like" a little "Socialism." It makes them feel better about themselves. <br /><br />However, I thought the references were to the "Woodstock Generation." Sorry, if I misunderstood. I'm just kind of tired of folks pounding on us poor old "boomers" all the time. I chaps my ass.<br /><br />Personally, I think a "Just" society has a better chance of enduring. I could be wrong. Even if I am, though, such a society is a lot more pleasant to live in.<br /><br />Remember, all those old "Austrian" economists never ran so much as an ice cream shop. <br /><br />They could explain to you how the "Free" market would solve this problem, or that problem; but they never got around to mentioning that the "fix" could, many times, easily take a hundred years, or more.<br /><br />A lot of "Free Market" Economics is just bloviating, mumbo-jumbo. Sometimes you just have to pitch in, and Fix the Problem.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21297199.post-91042595034857702072009-08-16T22:43:48.588-04:002009-08-16T22:43:48.588-04:00I thought I had just made the case for the post Wa...I thought I had just made the case for the post War shift in cultural mores.<br /><br />Mass education, beyond readin' 'ritin' and 'rithmatic, for the first time in the country's, or anyone's history.<br /><br />Fertility suppression by methods other than rhythm.desert rathttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02369546288659566961noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21297199.post-43500768841190157232009-08-16T22:37:03.128-04:002009-08-16T22:37:03.128-04:00Rufus
While what you say is, for the most part, c...Rufus<br /><br />While what you say is, for the most part, correct, it is beside the point. Sarcasm is not a legitimate substitute for reasoned argument.<br /><br />Rat<br /><br />I do not deny that the left has had an influence in America for many years before the war, its major influence on popular culture did not occur until after WW2.<br /><br />Do the both of you deny that there was a cultural revolution after WW2?<br /> <br />If you answer "yes" then there had to be a reason.<br /><br />If you answer "no" then you are at odds with the entire sociological body of opinion on the matter.<br /><br />Reasonable people can disagree on the causes of the cultural revolution. But I would suggest to you that to deny that there was such a revolution is not reasonable.<br /><br />However, if you have a case to make against conventional opinion you are free to make it. In fact, I would encourage you to make it.Blackbirdhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17564593406229397540noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21297199.post-34940712318608241812009-08-16T22:31:27.150-04:002009-08-16T22:31:27.150-04:00One could say, viktor, that the cultural revolutio...One could say, viktor, that the cultural revolution was just another advance of civilization.<br /><br />The combining of Science, in the control of fertility. Industry, in the ability to mass produce the "Pill". Government, by allowing the "medicine" to be deemed "healthy" for individuals and society. All coming together to advance the culture on the trail towards a progressive civilization.desert rathttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02369546288659566961noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21297199.post-26559947990201055492009-08-16T22:17:26.212-04:002009-08-16T22:17:26.212-04:00And here I was gong to postulate it was the cumula...And here I was gong to postulate it was the cumulative effect of the GI Bill, sending all those veterans into the hallowed halls of academia, that transformed 'em into liberals.<br /><br />But that the "Progressive Reforms" that statutized the populist or leftist trends were turn of the century endevours. Which well predated either the First or Second World Wars and the socializing effects either may have had on the country.<br /><br />The social programs that FDR introduced all predated WWII.<br /><br />It may be that the incessant expansion of Government since WWII was the driver that lit the fuse.desert rathttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02369546288659566961noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21297199.post-33651090093343259962009-08-16T21:38:42.256-04:002009-08-16T21:38:42.256-04:00Yeah, they protested for "Civil Rights,"...Yeah, they protested for "Civil Rights," and against the stupidest war the United States ever fought.<br /><br />They "tuned in," "turned on," and didn't support Anheuser Busch, and Seagram's lock on recreational drugs. <br /><br />They were for freedom from Jim Crow, and the woman's right to "equal" pay for equal work. <br /><br />They invented Missile Defense, the B-2, and the "Internet." They invented drugs to, if not "cure" cancer, to at least give it a fight, and their seeds took us from 70 bu/acre corn, to 160.<br /><br />They, overall, fed, and protected the world for a generation.<br /><br />They were, surely, a bunch of bums.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21297199.post-57776103893725044532009-08-16T21:24:16.769-04:002009-08-16T21:24:16.769-04:00DR said:
"doug blames the demise of Western...DR said: <br /><br /><em>"doug blames the demise of Western Civilization on the Woodstock Generation, not the US Government and the Military Industrial Complex represented by Robert McNamara, Vietnam, the rest of the Federal Socialists or even the Communists."</em><br /><br />Woodstock Generation or The Military Industrial Complex? Which caused the cultural revolution of the late 50's and 60's? Or was it something else? This is an area that professional Historians will have to unravel.<br /><br />My own feelings on the matter is that the cultural revolution had its genesis in the social consequences of WW2.<br /><br />Hundreds of thousands of men, away for many years, coming home physically, mentally, and morally exhausted, were unable to resist the influence of the left as they promoted social change. <br /><br />The left promoted permissiveness as a means of escaping the traditional social restrictions normally enforced by adult males. The lack of enforcement of traditional social norms provided the window of opportunity the left needed to begin their "long march on the institutions."<br /><br />If I were younger, I would make the post-war cultural revolution the focus of my career.Blackbirdhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17564593406229397540noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21297199.post-56398420074990678642009-08-16T20:33:01.928-04:002009-08-16T20:33:01.928-04:00I refuse to believe that all of our ills can be bl...I refuse to believe that all of our ills can be blamed upon a <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bi2KcN_bhJk&feature=related" rel="nofollow">blackbird flying into the light of the dark black night</a>.desert rathttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02369546288659566961noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21297199.post-5588386038992267492009-08-16T20:18:41.513-04:002009-08-16T20:18:41.513-04:00Country Joe asked the question, forty years ago.
...<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LBdeCxJmcAo" rel="nofollow">Country Joe asked the question</a>, forty years ago.<br /><br />doug blames the demise of Western Civilization on the Woodstock Generation, not the US Government and the Military Industrial Complex represented by Robert McNamara, Vietnam, the rest of the Federal Socialists or even the Communists.<br /><br />A conclusion I'd not have come to, myself. Never thought Richie Havens was a cultural power broker, just a representation of <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o-d5x-CiTUs&feature=related" rel="nofollow">Freedom</a>, baby.<br /><br />You too can feel like a motherless child.desert rathttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02369546288659566961noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21297199.post-89763189657121909322009-08-16T19:58:56.277-04:002009-08-16T19:58:56.277-04:00From the AP wire:
Mexico replaced all 700 of its ...From the AP wire:<br /><br /><i>Mexico replaced all 700 of its customs inspectors with agents newly trained to detect contraband, from guns and drugs to TVs and other big-ticket appliances smuggled to avoid import duties.<br /><br />The shake-up — part of a broader effort to root out corruption and improve vigilance at Mexican ports with new technology — doubled the size of Mexico's customs inspection force.<br /><br />The inspectors at all 49 of Mexico's customs points were replaced with 1,400 better-educated agents who have undergone background checks and months of training, Tax Administration Service spokesman Pedro Canabal said Sunday.<br /><br />He said the inspectors were not fired. Instead, government did not rehire them when their contracts expired, Canabal said.<br /><br />The main focus of the overhaul is to combat tax evasion, although Mexico is also trying to seize more guns smuggled in from the United States and elsewhere that end up in the hands of ruthless drug gangs. Mexican cartels are responsible for the majority of cocaine smuggled from South America to the United States.<br /><br />Canabal said the government hopes to improve its tax collection with the new system, noting that more than 40 percent of Mexico's value-added tax is collected at customs. However, he said the main benefit will be stopping the flood of pirated and cheap goods that he said undermine Mexican industries.<br /></i>desert rathttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02369546288659566961noreply@blogger.com